Dear Nina,
Thank you for your explanation of the vi~n~natti ruupas and for the quotes
from your Vism studies. I have read through it all but it is by no means
easy to digest. I will have to go through it again after I've done some
further study of the Pali source texts. I'm hardly familiar with the
Abhidhamma treatment of the ruupas as that doesn't come until quite later in
the texts as in the Dhs and Abhidhammatthasangaha and I just never got that
far. Also, it's been awhile since I've taken a serious look at the
Abhidhamma.
Best wishes,
Jim
----- Original Message -----
From: "Nina van Gorkom" <vangorko@...>
To: <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2012 5:17 AM
Subject: Re: [palistudy] update
Dear Jim,
Op 4-aug-2012, om 18:00 heeft Jim Anderson het volgende geschreven:
>
> Kiṃ kāraṇā gacchatīti cittakiriyavāyodhātuvipphārena
> gacchati. Tasmā esa
> evaṃ pajānāti–“gacchāmī”ti cittaṃ uppajjati, taṃ
[...]
N: The vi~n~natti ruupas are not concrete matter like the four great
elements. They are qualities of ruupa, the alteration of ruupa, and
as such they can be classified among the vikaara ruupas (lightness
etc.). They are " a certain unique change of the great elements".
As you know there are in a process of cittas seven javana cittas
(kusala, akusala or kiriya of the arahat). The first six produce the
element of wind and the seventh one produces the vi~n~natti ruupa.
The vaayo dhaatu produced by the first six javana cittas support the
vi~n~natti ruupa, they are its proximate cause.
I can quote some parts of my Visuddhimagga studies, Ch XIV, and
tiika. The translator mentions the Tiika texts to Vis. XIV, 61, in a
note, note 27.
-------
[...]
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Jim, your dilemma was twice janeti, (gacchāmī”ti cittaṃ
uppajjati, taṃ vāyaṃ janeti, vāyo
viññattiṃ janeti),but as it is said, we have to take this
figuratively.
This ruupa is hard to pinpoint, we cannot catch it. If we try to
label ruupas, the question is: who is doing so? It seems like a self
selecting certain ruupas as object of understanding.
---------
Nina.