Re: Kaccaayana: introductory verses (2)

Dear Jim and George,

Yes, of course there are many levels of knowing: there is knowledge
gained from reading or hearing, knowledge gained by deduction, and
knowledge gained experientially, to mention a few.  Here, the
knowledge of path, fruition and nibbāna gained by the wise is not mere
book-learning, but experiential, gained through practice of the three
trainings of morality, concentration and wisdom taught by the Buddha.
Ashin Janakābhivaṃsa says of "budhā labhanti" in his ṭīkā to the
Kaccāyana, "Because the attainment (getting) of path and fruition =
knowing penetratingly, the meaning of labhanti is explicated as
"paṭivijjhanti = having penetrated, they know."  This use of the verb
to know is rooted in the understanding that the mind has the
characteristic of knowing an object, and that direct realization of
Nibbāna happens when the mind takes Nibbāna as its object.  This is
knowing, but not a type of knowing that can be gained just by reading.

I would like to add to the discussion of the meaning of akkhara by
referring to the Tipiṭaka Pāḷi-Myanmar Dictionary [as you may know,
this is a work of nearly 20 large volumes containing every word used
in the Tipiṭaka and (I think) Commentaries, which was produced
following the sixth Saṃgha Council.] It says that there are three
kinds of akkhara, 1. conceptual, 2. spoken, and 3. written, and
follows by citing the use of the word akkhara in each of these
meanings in the Pāḷi and Commentaries.  In the time of the Buddha, his
teaching wasn't written down but was transmitted orally.  But now it
exists in written form as well as oral.  And whether we are talking
about akkhara as mental, spoken or written, what is important is that
they must be pronounced and written correctly, otherwise the meaning
of the Pāḷi will become corrupted.

with metta,
Ma Vajira

On Sat, Dec 26, 2009 at 10:10 AM, Jim Anderson <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> Dear Ma Vajiranani,
>
> Thanks for you contribution. I would like to comment on the following:
>
> << The wise get, or know, the 9 Supramundane Dhammas (path, fruition and
> Nibbāna) which are in this excellent Pāḷi by means of the method preached by
> the Buddha. >>
>
> I wonder about "know" as a translation for "labhanti" in "seyyaṃ. . . budhā
> labhanti". The Nyāsa (p. 4) glosses "labhanti" with "paṭivijjhanti"
> (penetrate). "know" suggests to me knowing without necessarily attaining to
> or acquiring the 9 supramundane dhammas. The verse alludes to
> paṭivedhadhamma (seyyaṃ), paṭipattidhamma (jineritanayena), and I think the
> obtaining of a thorough understanding of the meaning of the Buddhavacana
> through non-confusion about the letters and words belong to pariyattidhamma.
>
> << I would like to correct one thing Jim mentioned in his very kind note
> introducing me: we study Sandhi, Naama and Aakhyaata sections of
> Kaccaayana during the first year of study here, among other things,
> not a whole year only studying Sandhi. >>
>
> Sorry and thanks for the correction. Indeed, the following is what you wrote
> in your earlier offlist message to me:
>
> "We study Kaccaayano for 4 years.  1st year is sandhi, naama and aakhyaata;
> 2nd year, kaaraka and kit; 3rd year, samaasa and taddhita, fourth year
> un.aad (sorry, I might be mispelling that)."
>
> It's a lot to cover in the 1st year. I'll be happy to cover just sandhi for
> all of next year at one sutta a week.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jim
>
>
>
> ------------------------------------
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