Re: Jeyya vs. Je.t.tha vs. Jeti

Hi Eisel,

> Firstly: many thanks to all who contributed on the "bya-" vs. "vya-"
> controversy.  The account reported from K.R. Norman seems to me
quite
> appealing; conversely, I *DO NOT* accept that the transformation of
an
> initial consonant cluster (i.e., vya- into bya-) is comparable to
the
> permutation of a medial consonant (i.e., -va- into -bba-).  This is
not
> "normal sandhi", and it is more likely that there is some kind of
> etymological/developmental explanation --i.e., without further
information,
> I would tend to favour the account reported from Norman.  For
myself: I
> think I have ignored this when I have seen it in the Burmese script,
as the
> Burmese "b" does resemble the "v" enough that I may have simply
assumed I
> was reading an error whenever I passed over "byakara.na".

Interestingly too, the "b" and "v" in the Devanagari script bear some
resemblance.

> A new question:
> I noticed today that Narada Thera explains "Jeyya" as related to
"Je.t.tha",
> whereas my dicionary (and: innate sense) would instead explain Jeyya
as a
> form of Jeti (either a present participle of Jeti, or a passive
> construction).

I'm assuming you're using Buddhadatta's dictionary. His entry for
"jeyya" which also includes "jetabba" accounts for the derivation from
the root "ji" only. These are potential passive participles (pt. p's).
The "jeyya" that Narada explains is derived differently and therefore
a different word (a homonym). It is derived from the substitute
"ja" plus the comparative suffix "iya". Kaccaayana explains this in
the following two suttas:

262, 391. vu.d.dhassa jo iyi.t.thesu.
  sabbasseva vu.d.dhasaddassa joaadeso hoti iya  i.t.thaiccetesu
paccayesu.
  jeyyo , je.t.tho.

263, 392. pasatthassa so ca.
  sabbasseva pasatthasaddassa soaadeso hoti,  jaadeso ca
iyai.t.thaiccetesu
paccayesu.
  seyyo, se.t.tho, jeyyo, je.t.tho.

You can see here that "ja" is the substitute (aadesa) of "vu.d.dha"
(aged) or "pasattha" (praised) before the following taddhita suffixes
of comparison: iya & i.t.tha. In Sanskrit, the substitute is "jya" to
form "jyaayas" (Pa.n V.3.61-2). It doesn't seem to me that this
substitute "ja" has any connection to the root "ji" (to conquer or
subdue) but the Sanskrit "jya" seems to be related to the Sanskrit
root "jyaa" (to overpower or grow old). I do not see a Pali equivalent
of this root.

Incidentally, I have noticed that the "v" of "vu.d.dha" is sometimes a
"b" i.e. bu.d.dha.

Jim

> Specifically, Narada claims that "Jeyya" is the comparative (meaning
> "Elder") whereas "Je.t.tha" is the superlative (i.e., praising
someone as
> very old).  It would seem to me that the meaning of Jeyya is instead
rooted
> in Jeti, and can figuratively suggest someone who is an accomplished
elder
>  --as with all the passive-voice constructions meaning "conquered",
"fit to
> be conquered", etc.

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