From what I was
> told by Dr Filliozat it is impossible to see the manuscripts
in the
> National Library in Bankok ...
>It is possible for a Thai national; if you're a foreigner it
>is "nearly
>impossible", due to bureaucratic obstacles.
*Although there are obstacles, they are not that strigent if
you speak Thai and go through the official sequence of forms.
I was allowed to see any ms. I requested in the National
Library and the staff was quite friendly and helpful. It does
require patience though:)
>
>I believe the order in which I learned the scripts was (1)
Sinhalese, (2)
>Khmer, (3) Burmese, (4) modern Thai / modern Lao, (5)
Lao-Dhamma. I'm a bit
>
>out of practice with Khmer/Khom --but I have a beautiful set
of fonts that
>work very well with all the Pali combinations from here:
>http://www.xenotypetech.com/osxCambodian.html
>The recent re-print of the Cambodian tipitaka seems like a
cheap and
>good-quality binding. I have no idea what the quality of the
actual text is
>
>(i.e., frequency of errors); a colleague (who can't read
Pali) sent me a
>single volume from the current reprinting project --but there
were very few
>(8?) lines in Pali, and the rest of the book was a modern Khmer
>commentary/story.
>
>Interesting. I used to have an incomplete Cambodian edition
of the canon in
>my office, before the demise of the CPD project. If I recall
correctly it
>was edited sometime in the thirties. Browsing through the
volumes one day
>many years ago, I found in one of them a comment on the
edition written by
>my illustrious predecessor on the project, Helmer Smith. It
ran like this:
>The effort of a royal court-ignoramus!
I have a short article on the history of French role in Pali
education and tipitaka work in Laos with NIU press coming out
early next year. I mention the some of the history of the
EFEO/Institue bouddhique role in the Cambodian tipitaka
edition in that article. Anne Hansen has a book on the history
of Cambodian Buddhism (1860-1930) coming out next year. She
discusses it fully in that book. Keep your eyes for her book,
its great.
jm
---- Original message ----
>Date: Mon, 19 Sep 2005 12:01:14 +0200
>From: "Ole Holten Pind" <oleholtenpind@...>
>Subject: SV: [palistudy] Pali Wiki-space / MS conservation
>To: <palistudy@yahoogroups.com>
>
>
>
>-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
>Fra: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
[mailto:palistudy@yahoogroups.com] På vegne
>af navako
>Sendt: 19. september 2005 09:00
>Til: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
>Emne: [palistudy] Pali Wiki-space / MS conservation
>
>
>Bhante,
>
>> It was not in my mind to create a Roman only edition. It is
easy to
>> convert a text from one script to the other by conversion
programs. The
>> VRI CSCD system where the same Chattha Sangayana text can
be viewed in
>> different scripts is a good example. The digital
Buddhajayanthi can be
>> viewed both in Sinhala and Roman script.
>
>However, I don't believe that either of these projects use
proper "classical
>
>literary sinhalese" fonts --with correct ligatures, combined
consonants,
>etc.? The CSCD certainly uses a kind of crude modern
Sinhalese for Pali; it
>
>would be advantageous to produce / convert Roman e-text into
correct Unicode
>
>Sinhalese (it would then be possible to display the text
on-screen as either
>
>"correct" literary Sinhalese, with all the ligatures, or the
user could
>choose to display it with the Hal-Akuru breaking up all the
combined
>consonants, as in modern Sinhalese).
>
>>> Besides which, why have such low expectations of western
scholars?
>>> They can learn a few different scripts. I'm 26, and I can
Pali in
>>> read 5 or more different scripts (*not* including Roman) ...
>>>
>> In the Pali suttas the concept of yobbanamada ``the
pride/intoxication
>> of youth'' is mentioned...
>
>I'm insulted, and without reason. I have no pride in this
accomplishment:
>everything stated in my previous message was to give voice to
the point that
>
>it is really quite easy to extend one's understanding of Pali
across many
>scripts. It is not much effort, and not much of an
accomplishment. I am
>neither proud nor intoxicated in learning additional
alphabets; it is a feat
>
>that many small children can demonstrate with ease.
Obversely, you have not
>
>answered my question: "...why have such low expectations of
western
>scholars?"
>
>> (I learnt Sinhala, Devanagiri, and Khom) and most
Westerners and Asians.
>> How many Thais know the old Siamese Khom script? ... Did
you learn the
>various closely
>> related scripts of Laos and Northern Thailand.
>
>Khom is itself quite closely related to the "Northern Dhamma"
scripts.
>There is basically a spectrum of Pali scripts from
Sip-Song-Pa-Na (China) to
>
>Cambodia, with Burmese and Lao-Dhamma as different points on
that spectrum.
>
>I believe the order in which I learned the scripts was (1)
Sinhalese, (2)
>Khmer, (3) Burmese, (4) modern Thai / modern Lao, (5)
Lao-Dhamma. I'm a bit
>
>out of practice with Khmer/Khom --but I have a beautiful set
of fonts that
>work very well with all the Pali combinations from here:
>http://www.xenotypetech.com/osxCambodian.html
>The recent re-print of the Cambodian tipitaka seems like a
cheap and
>good-quality binding. I have no idea what the quality of the
actual text is
>
>(i.e., frequency of errors); a colleague (who can't read
Pali) sent me a
>single volume from the current reprinting project --but there
were very few
>(8?) lines in Pali, and the rest of the book was a modern Khmer
>commentary/story.
>
>Interesting. I used to have an incomplete Cambodian edition
of the canon in
>my office, before the demise of the CPD project. If I recall
correctly it
>was edited sometime in the thirties. Browsing through the
volumes one day
>many years ago, I found in one of them a comment on the
edition written by
>my illustrious predecessor on the project, Helmer Smith. It
ran like this:
>The effort of a royal court-ignoramus!
>
>Ole Pind
>
>
>> I can not completely agree with you here.
>> As far as I know the Uva rebellion was before the time that
the British
>> developed an interest in Pali ...
>
>Both Buddhist art and MS tended to be looted whenever they
burnt the temples
>
>down; however, because the MS were chosen on the appearance
of material
>value, predominantly kammavaca & jataka texts have made their
way to the
>west in this way.
>
>> ...so the temple libraries might also have
>> been scorched.
>
>Absolutely.
>
>> The capital of Siam, Ayodhya, with all its artifacts
>> and temples was destroyed and looted by the Burmese in the
18th century.
>
>Precisely 10 years later, the Thais did the same thing to all
three cities
>of Laos --they looted the libraries and temples, and took
what they wanted
>back to Bangkok (the new capital). It's rarely recognised
that the attempt
>of Rama I to re-assemble the Tipitaka was in part related to
the "new" MS
>that had just been brought back by the first big predatory
incursion into
>Lao (this was the transitional period under "general" Taksin;
Rama I wasn't
>in the throne yet, I don't think).
>
>There was another big blood-letting, MS looting, and
burning-down of Laotian
>
>libraries in 1827. They still have an enormous quantity of
Lao MS in the
>Bangkok National Library (and, I suspect, the Bangkok Wat
library) as a
>result of these raids.
>
>> One of the oldest manuscripts in Sri Lanka, a 13th century
>> manuscript of the Visuddhimaggatika, kept in the University of
>> Peradeniya got partly destroyed by mold because it was
wrongly preserved
>> by an amateur and kept in the same moist cellar where the
rest of the
>> 2000 or so manuscripts are kept. Likewise in the National
Museum Library
>> in Colombo there is no airconditioning and some manuscripts
have been
>> misplaced or stolen and can not be found.
>
>Although it is not an excuse, I will note that I there have
been similar
>horror stories in wealthy countries --both in Asia and in
Europe. 99% of
>conservation science is "low tech" stuff; a colleague
reported to me about a
>
>major collection of Chinese MS being preserved/destroyed in a
set of
>cabinets made of highly acidic wood. She's a specialist in
such things, and
>
>she observed that if they had simply selected a different
kind of wood, or
>instructed the carpented to make a particular lining, it
wouldn't be a
>problem; but all that the conservation staff cared about (at
this un-named
>institution) was the aesthetic quality of the huge wooden
cabinets.
>Resultantly, the MS will become brittle --then fall to
pieces-- in a few
>decades at most.
>
>This is a "low tech" problem, with a "low tech" solution;
however, awareness
>
>of the issues, and having an open-minded attitude toward the
advice of
>specialists is a pre-requisite for setting up a sustainable
collections
>environment (i.e., both "sustainable" economically for the
institution and
>its staff, and "sustaining" the MS).
>
>> In some of the temples I have
>> visited manuscripts are eaten by termites, cockroaches,
rats and are
>> kept in cupboards with old newspapers and cutlery...
>
>I am duly horrified --however, please don't imagine that this
is a problem
>that only exists in Sri Lanka, or even in Asia. To use a
European example
>of the same, major work of Karl Marx that was "subject to the
editorship of
>the mice", and is now published with various lacunae, as only
one (gnawed
>upon) MS survived.
>
>> From what I was
>> told by Dr Filliozat it is impossible to see the
manuscripts in the
>> National Library in Bankok ...
>
>It is possible for a Thai national; if you're a foreigner it
is "nearly
>impossible", due to bureaucratic obstacles.
>
>E.M.
>
>
>--
>A saying of the Buddha from http://metta.lk/
>View Streaming Dhamma Video http://dharmavahini.tv/
>Better than a thousand verses, comprising useless words, is
one beneficial
>single line, by hearing which one is pacified.
>Random Dhammapada Verse 101
>
>
>
>
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______________
Dr. Justin McDaniel
Dept. of Religious Studies
2617 Humanities Building
University of California, Riverside
Riverside, CA 92521
909-827-4530
justinm@...