SV: Pali Wiki-space / MS conservation

-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: palistudy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:palistudy@yahoogroups.com] På vegne
af navako
Sendt: 19. september 2005 09:00
Til: palistudy@yahoogroups.com
Emne: [palistudy] Pali Wiki-space / MS conservation


Bhante,

> It was not in my mind to create a Roman only edition. It is easy to
> convert a text from one script to the other by conversion programs. The
> VRI CSCD system where the same Chattha Sangayana text can be viewed in
> different scripts is a good example. The digital Buddhajayanthi can be
> viewed both in Sinhala and Roman script.

However, I don't believe that either of these projects use proper "classical

literary sinhalese" fonts --with correct ligatures, combined consonants,
etc.?  The CSCD certainly uses a kind of crude modern Sinhalese for Pali; it

would be advantageous to produce / convert Roman e-text into correct Unicode

Sinhalese (it would then be possible to display the text on-screen as either

"correct" literary Sinhalese, with all the ligatures, or the user could
choose to display it with the Hal-Akuru breaking up all the combined
consonants, as in modern Sinhalese).

>> Besides which, why have such low expectations of western scholars?
>> They can learn a few different scripts.  I'm 26, and I can Pali in
>> read 5 or more different scripts (*not* including Roman) ...
>>
> In the Pali suttas the concept of yobbanamada ``the pride/intoxication
> of youth'' is mentioned...

I'm insulted, and without reason.  I have no pride in this accomplishment:
everything stated in my previous message was to give voice to the point that

it is really quite easy to extend one's understanding of Pali across many
scripts.  It is not much effort, and not much of an accomplishment.  I am
neither proud nor intoxicated in learning additional alphabets; it is a feat

that many small children can demonstrate with ease.  Obversely, you have not

answered my question: "...why have such low expectations of western
scholars?"

> (I learnt Sinhala, Devanagiri, and Khom) and most Westerners and Asians.
> How many Thais know the old Siamese Khom script? ... Did you learn the
various closely
> related scripts of Laos and Northern Thailand.

Khom is itself quite closely related to the "Northern Dhamma" scripts. 
There is basically a spectrum of Pali scripts from Sip-Song-Pa-Na (China) to

Cambodia, with Burmese and Lao-Dhamma as different points on that spectrum.

I believe the order in which I learned the scripts was (1) Sinhalese, (2)
Khmer, (3) Burmese, (4) modern Thai / modern Lao, (5) Lao-Dhamma.  I'm a bit

out of practice with Khmer/Khom --but I have a beautiful set of fonts that
work very well with all the Pali combinations from here:
http://www.xenotypetech.com/osxCambodian.html
The recent re-print of the Cambodian tipitaka seems like a cheap and
good-quality binding.  I have no idea what the quality of the actual text is

(i.e., frequency of errors); a colleague (who can't read Pali) sent me a
single volume from the current reprinting project --but there were very few
(8?) lines in Pali, and the rest of the book was a modern Khmer
commentary/story.

Interesting. I used to have an incomplete Cambodian edition of the canon in
my office, before the demise of the CPD project. If I recall correctly it
was edited sometime in the thirties. Browsing through the volumes one day
many years ago, I found in one of them a comment on the edition written by
my illustrious predecessor on the project, Helmer Smith. It ran like this:
The effort of a royal court-ignoramus!

Ole Pind


> I can not completely agree with you here.
> As far as I know the Uva rebellion was before the time that the British
> developed an interest in Pali ...

Both Buddhist art and MS tended to be looted whenever they burnt the temples

down; however, because the MS were chosen on the appearance of material
value, predominantly kammavaca & jataka texts have made their way to the
west in this way.

> ...so the temple libraries might also have
> been scorched.

Absolutely.

> The capital of Siam, Ayodhya, with all its artifacts
> and temples was destroyed and looted by the Burmese in the 18th century.

Precisely 10 years later, the Thais did the same thing to all three cities
of Laos --they looted the libraries and temples, and took what they wanted
back to Bangkok (the new capital).  It's rarely recognised that the attempt
of Rama I to re-assemble the Tipitaka was in part related to the "new" MS
that had just been brought back by the first big predatory incursion into
Lao (this was the transitional period under "general" Taksin; Rama I wasn't
in the throne yet, I don't think).

There was another big blood-letting, MS looting, and burning-down of Laotian

libraries in 1827.  They still have an enormous quantity of Lao MS in the
Bangkok National Library (and, I suspect, the Bangkok Wat library) as a
result of these raids.

> One of the oldest manuscripts in Sri Lanka, a 13th century
> manuscript of the Visuddhimaggatika, kept in the University of
> Peradeniya got partly destroyed by mold because it was wrongly preserved
> by an amateur and kept in the same moist cellar where the rest of the
> 2000 or so manuscripts are kept. Likewise in the National Museum Library
> in Colombo there is no airconditioning and some manuscripts have been
> misplaced or stolen and can not be found.

Although it is not an excuse, I will note that I there have been similar
horror stories in wealthy countries --both in Asia and in Europe.  99% of
conservation science is "low tech" stuff; a colleague reported to me about a

major collection of Chinese MS being preserved/destroyed in a set of
cabinets made of highly acidic wood.  She's a specialist in such things, and

she observed that if they had simply selected a different kind of wood, or
instructed the carpented to make a particular lining, it wouldn't be a
problem; but all that the conservation staff cared about (at this un-named
institution) was the aesthetic quality of the huge wooden cabinets. 
Resultantly, the MS will become brittle --then fall to pieces-- in a few
decades at most.

This is a "low tech" problem, with a "low tech" solution; however, awareness

of the issues, and having an open-minded attitude toward the advice of
specialists is a pre-requisite for setting up a sustainable collections
environment (i.e., both "sustainable" economically for the institution and
its staff, and "sustaining" the MS).

> In some of the temples I have
> visited manuscripts are eaten by termites, cockroaches, rats and are
> kept in cupboards with old newspapers and cutlery...

I am duly horrified --however, please don't imagine that this is a problem
that only exists in Sri Lanka, or even in Asia.  To use a European example
of the same, major work of Karl Marx that was "subject to the editorship of
the mice", and is now published with various lacunae, as only one (gnawed
upon) MS survived.

> From what I was
> told by Dr Filliozat it is impossible to see the manuscripts in the
> National Library in Bankok ...

It is possible for a Thai national; if you're a foreigner it is "nearly
impossible", due to bureaucratic obstacles.

E.M.


--
A saying of the Buddha from http://metta.lk/
View Streaming Dhamma Video http://dharmavahini.tv/
Better than a thousand verses, comprising useless words, is one beneficial
single line, by hearing which one is pacified.
Random Dhammapada Verse 101




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