Re: Decline of Pali: reply to Rhett

This is a reply to Rhett,

I feel that he's trying to write direct, honest and open answers, and I want
to begin my reply by stating that I appreciate his effort.  There are a few
points where he has imputed opinions to me that I do not hold --but this is
an inevitable part of reading a missive and then proceeding with certain
assumptions as to the unstated portion of the argument (or its over-arching
purpose).  In any case, I just want to state in preface that there are a few
cases in which I must say "That's not what I meant, nor what I said", but
I'm neither being combative nor reproachful in so saying --just reaching for
clarity.

>>  1. The reliance on Romanized text (cultivated by the PTS) has created (or:
>>exacerbated) an artificial division between indigenous/living
>>manuscript-based Theravada Buddhist traditions and the "scholarly" sect.
>
> I would say that the key difference is between
> critical editions and non-critical editions...

What we have here are two completely different issues.  I don't disagree
with what Rhett says about critical editions, but it isn't actually related
to what I said about scholars being alienated from indigenous sources,
resources, and (above all) persons, because they cannot read the local
scripts.  It can be further said that this issue of "un/critical editions"
only applies to texts with multiple editions, such as the suttapitaka; a lot
of Pali and pseudo-Pali classical texts of S.E.A. will never receive such
careful editing and repeated publication --if they exist in modern print at
all.  A further issue: "critical editions" only mean that you're relying on
someone else to have done the "critical reading" for you.  If you can sit
down with a Burmese-Pali nissaya on one knee, and a Lanna-Pali nissaya on
the other knee, you can do your own "comparative/critical reading".

> I'm not sure what you mean to say here. There are two possible issues:
>
> 1) The standardization of spelling, such as
> (metre permitting) always using niggahita in
> cases like ta.m ca, rather than the mss' tañ ca,
> etc.
>
> 2) Bad accent in reading aloud, due to interference from English phonetics.

Actually, I making the further point that each region has its own "brogue",
which, like the local script, a serious scholar should learn.  A PTS
education does not very well prepare you for the complex and shifting
phonetic values you will encounter when you hear Pali chanted in different
countries of S.E.A.; obviously, knowing Pali in multiple indigenous scripts
is better preparation than none at all, but even then the relationship is
quite complex.  Thai is, perhaps, the worst of all examples, where "c"
becomes "j", final vowels are ignored, etc. etc.

Thus, I wrote:
>>Western scholarship has produced almost nothing that would educate
>>you as to how to hear, comprehend, or speak Pali in its various "dialects"
>>of South East Asia.
>
> This is the sort of criticism where I feel you're
> being fair and unfair at the same time. Sure,
> this is a great topic and I'd love to see such
> studies done. But there just aren't that many
> people involved in Pali studies. If you identify
> a really important lack, then the best thing to
> do would be to try to fix it yourself and
> encourage others to join you.

I think I've described what I'm doing with my life to a great enough extent,
Rhett, that you should be able to infer that I am very actively, very
stridently, trying to provide for some "very important lacks".

>>  I did not even bother to mention in point #1 above that
>>there is a paucity of texts on indigenous scripts; if you want to learn to
>>read and write Pali in the Sinhalese script, good luck finding a single
>>published source.
>
> Again, it seems like you are blaming PTS for not
> doing enough, and yet if if wasn't for PTS
> nothing would have been done at all.

Point two there is simple lie: "if if [sic.] wasn't for PTS nothing would
have been done at all" ... hubris!  Pure hubris.  Even a western scholar
with no living Asian tongue could get by using the Pali resources published
by the Maha Bodhi Society, Sri Lanka's Jayanti edition, Burma's council
edition, the Hewaviratine trust edition... and, if we include more recent
sources, there's a galaxy of scholarly and religio/charitable publishers,
such as the recent Taiwanese printed Devanagari tripitaka.  Except, of
course, all these resources AREN'T ROMANIZED!  It can hardly be said that
the PTS is "the only game in town"; on the contrary, even in the 19th
century, better Pali textbooks were coming out of Christian missionary
organizations in India and Burma.  And --what am I saying?-- I am only
speaking of English language Pali resources!  If one turns to the presses of
the Soviets and the Germans, there are still more resources to speak of.  No
no, Rhett, your claim that "nothing would have been done at all" without the
PTS rather shrivels when held up next to the searing light of all that has
been done, and all that is being done, outside of that organization.  Let me
be clear: the only people who have this hubris (this perverse notion) that
the world of Theravada Buddhism is beholden to the PTS are those who totally
rely on Romanized editions, and therefore are unaware of the wealth of
resources that come from Asia, or even European organizations other than the
PTS.  This relates back to my original point.

>> ...and, to be very blunt, the explicit racism and
>>British empiralism that was preached by Rhys-Davids (founder of the PTS) is
>>nowhere dealt with by the inheritors of the PTS tradition.
>
> It's sounds almost like you're now blaming
> Britain for India and Sri Lanka having a caste
> system.

Rhett, that is a completely absurd accusation; and there is nothing
suggesting that in my text.  What my text clearly states is that the
explicit racism and "empirialism [sic. --a fine typo on my part!]" of
Rhys-Davids views are denied and not dealth with; and, there is a separate
and significant issue of caste in Sri Lanka which nobody in this field is
dealing with --whereas caste in Hinduism is very much dealt with in Sanskrit
studies, and I have already used the parallel example of racialism/racism in
Max Muller's case, to contrast to Rhys-Davids.

>>   On the contrary,
>>they are very much in denial about the racism and overt imperialism of so
>>many of Rhys-Davids lectures and writings, and they are likewise in denial
>>as to the explicit Theosophical bias the Davids' wife (C.A.F. Rhys-Davids)
>>brought into the PTS fold at an early date.
>
> What do you mean by their 'being in denial' about
> this? Are you asking for them to publish acts of
> contrition in the JPTS ?

No, I am stating that (1) repeatedly publishing LIES and GLORIFICATIONS of
the lives and writings of these figures does constitute "denialism" as to
these important (and odious) aspects, and (2) yes, I am indeed calling for
an open and actively critical attitude toward the corpus of literature that
the PTS has itself produced.  How long do you think you can sweep
Rhys-Davids' historical lectures under the carpet?  The man made a
profession of preaching to Manchesterians that they had a "racial" and
"ethnic" affinity with Buddhism (on account of their supposed "Aryan" status
  --a complete myth) that, e.g., the people of Thailand could never have (not
to mention the other 95% of humanity, who might not care as much about being
characterized as racially inadequate to receive the Buddha's teaching as the
Thais do).  Yes, the current PTS has an obligation to deal with this legacy;
if you don't, you will be "tarred by the same brush".  To make excuses for
racists and imperialists (not to mention Theosophists) and to
glorify/obfuscate their legacies with lies and half-truths does indeed make
you complicit in their views --just as those who today try to glorify the
racists and imperialists of the past are inevitably "tarred with the same
brush" as the historical figures in question.

>>  Both of these influences (i.e.,
>>British "Aryan" imperialism (defined as such) and Theosophy) did much to
>>warp the PTS's school of interpretation and translation.
>
> Again I agree halfway and disagree halfway. Sure,
> there are traces of British Imperialistic
> ideology and Theosophy in those old PTS
> translations. But there is no such thing as a
> "PTS school of interpretation". Nada, zilch, nil.

No, at least lexically one must admit that there are many English
definitions of Pali terms that seem to have no basis other than old debates
within the PTS, and they have become accepted by those who have "grown up"
using PTS resources.  I do think that there's a range of such norms that
become quite binding for those who remain lifelong dependents of exclusively
PTS resources.  But perhaps this is only true of junior student, or those
who never progress beyond a very junior student stage.  It is true, as you
say, that the PTS is not exactly a closely knit coven.

>>  It is, however, needless to say that the situation in Pali
>>studies is FAR WORSE in those Theravada countries that were bombed into
>>oblivion by the U.S. during the 20th century, i.e., Laos and Cambodia.
>>Books of any kind are extremely scarce in Laos and Cambodia, and the need
>>for basic Pali materials is acute
>
> I attended my first anti Vietnam war protest in
> Berkeley at the age of three with my parents. I
> was among those teargassed by the police, and I
> still believe the US involvement in SE Asia was a
> terrible and tragic mistake. But to blame the US
> for the poor state of Pali in Laos and Cambodia
> strikes me as unfair and indicative of an
> anti-western bias.

Rhett here you are more wrong than you can know.  The U.S. dropped more
bombs on Laos alone than it dropped on Germany and Japan combined during
WWII; if you take the cash value of the bombs and divide by the number of
days of the conflict, it works out to $3 million U.S. dollars EVERY DAY for
NINE YEARS.  You can't study Pali when the "Raven division" bombed your
temple into oblivion; you can't study Pali when there are no books, no
electricity, no food --and when hundreds of thousands of people are being
killed and fleeing for their lives.  Rhett, I'm going to think the best of
you here, and attribute your views on the matter to pure ignorance, rather
than some impure desire.  Yes, the U.S. is very much responsible for the
complete eclipse of education of any kind in S.E.A.

> I'm not an expert on the
> region, but I do know there was a deliberate and
> vigorous campaign by the Communists in SE Asia to
> wipe out Buddhism.

Guess what Rhett --you're ignorant.  How can I tell?  It's easy: (1) Laotian
communists weren't opponents of Buddhism, they were patrons of Buddhism and
still are, you're thinking of Cambodian communists, a.k.a., the Khmer Rouge,
but (2) THE KHMER-ROUGE WERE FUNDED BY THE U.S. GOVERNMENT.  The U.S. kept
funding the Khmer Rouge ("Communist" or not) right up until 1992.  Open a
history book before you weigh into this, Rhett --your theory that the U.S.
is not responsible doesn't hold much weight when the particular
anti-Buddhist communists in question were armed and funded by the U.S.A.

> I'd start by looking there for
> an explanation.

No, Rhett, you haven't started looking at all.

>  Also, to say that those
> countries were 'bombed into oblivion' is not
> accurate. The bombings were directed against
> infiltration routes used by the NVA and against
> bivouac areas for local communist guerrillas
> both of which were in rugged jungle areas.

Rhett, I could show you a map of Laos and point out the cities that CEASED
TO EXIST due to U.S. bombing --some of which were later rebuilt on different
sites (i.e., reviving the old name).  In fact, if you visited me here, I
could take you on a road trip and show them to you.  You do not know what
you're talking about, and you're being extremely presumptuous and offensive
in speaking from that position.  But then, what else would I expect from a
member of the PTS except more of the same justification of western
imperialism that the institution has been notorious for since Rhys-Davids? 
Perhaps you should start by re-examining what Davids had to say about the
"Aryan race" and British empire after all.

E.M.


--
A saying of the Buddha from http://metta.lk/
Get your Dhamma Books from http://books.metta.lk/
He who wholly subdues evil deeds both small and great, is called a monk
because he has overcome all evil.
Random Dhammapada Verse 265