Dear Venerable Pandita,
Thanks for your comments, it is worrying what is
happening throughout Theravda- especially the disdain
for the commentaries- of which poor interest in Pali
is a symptom.
This lack of respect is strong among Wesern converts,
but also Buddhists in Thailand, Burma and Sri lanka
who take on board the skepticism of Western scholars.
In fact on another forum at the moment I am having a
discussion with a group of Buddhist who believe the
Abhidhamma was invented by later monks- they distrust
even the Tipitaka, let alone what they say about the
commentaries.
with respect
Robertk
--- "Ven. Pandita" <ashinpan@...> wrote:
>
>
> Thanks very much, Jim, E.M., and Nina, for your
> detailed explanations
> and opinions.The facts you have given are wholly new
> to me and have
> given me new food for thought.
>
> Now I would like to present here my own thoughts
> and the situation of
> Pali in Burma as well.
>
> As we all know, Pali Text Society is a leading
> institution of Pali
> studies in the West. We need not repeat its
> accomplishments here since
> it would have been redundant to do so. However, I
> think that the very
> success of PTS has led to the degradation of Pali in
> the West.
>
> I know I should explain.
>
> Pali is the language of Theravada Buddhism, and
> *almost* of nothing
> else. It means that potential students of Pali are,
> excepting a few
> philologists like K.R. Norman, those eager to learn
> Theravada Buddhism.
> But when such persons refuse to learn Pali, their
> reasoning would be
> typically like this:
>
> 1. Pali is admittedly the language of Theravada
> Buddhism
>
> 2. However, PTS, an institution of high academic
> standards, has already
> published the translations of the whole(?) Canon. We
> can read and refer
> to PTS translations; no sane professor could object
> to this.
>
> 3. It is true that a major part of the commentarial
> literature has not
> been translated yet; but who cares? Commentaries are
> far from being the
> genuine words of the Buddha but only works of monks
> belonging to later
> periods.On the contrary, we can interpret the Canon
> in our own light,
> and may even achieve better results.
>
> 4. Then studying Pali means only a bother, a waste
> of valuable time.
>
> There are, of course, some protests against such an
> attitude. One of the
> protesters is none other than K.R. Norman, who, in
> one of his papers
> (Sorry! I am not able to give references here),
> warns that PTS
> translations, and PED itself, should not be taken
> too seriously.But
> almost no one would hear him.
>
> I'd like to know your opinions. Meanwhile I still
> have other things to say.
>
> Jim wrote:
>
> >I believe it's the responsibility of those who have
> long been involved with
> >Pali and care enough about it to try and do
> whatever they can to promote
> >interest in the study of the Pali language and its
> texts and to offer
> >support for the continuation of such learning. My
> preference is for such
> >efforts to take place in a supportive religious
> setting based on solid
> >Theravada principles rather than in an academic one
> involving high tuition
> >fees and high salaries for teachers/researchers. My
> idea is for something
> >that operates on the generosity and good will of
> dhammadaayaadas committed
> >to the threefold saasana.
> >
> >
> A very good idea, Jim, but I doubt whether it is
> practical enough. I am
> speaking from my own experience, for the Buddhist
> University where I
> studied, namely, State Pariyatti Sasana University
> (Rangoon), Burma is
> such an institution depending wholly on donations. I
> belong to the third
> batch of pre-graduate students; so I experienced the
> situation in the
> early days of the University, which I will relate
> here.
>
> After the founding of the University, its sponsoring
> committee rushed to
> set up very big and costly buildings instead of
> seeking out competent
> teachers and collecting books for the library. Their
> explanation is " If
> the university is to survive and prosper, we must
> make way for a steady
> stream of donations and maintain it.Tangible things
> usually attract
> donations, and the bigger they are, the better"
>
> As it is, the library was the last to be completed
> and yet without a
> fund for buying books. The librarian had to wait for
> donated texts. The
> donations did come; but only in the form of so many
> sets of Tipitaka
> Canon. The library got so many of them that it met a
> shortage of
> bookshelves. In the meantime, there were not enough
> sets of commentarial
> literature even for around 100 students and other
> ancillary literature
> was almost unavailable. The donors insisted on
> donating Tipitaka only;
> they were afraid they would gain less merit by
> offering non-Tipitaka books!
>
> I have concluded from my experience that, if an
> institution of Pali is
> to be founded, as Jim said, "in the supportive
> religious settings", its
> community of potential donors must be fairly
> advanced in its thinking
> and visions; otherwise it would be very difficult to
> succeed, if not
> outright hopeless.
>
> E.M. has quoted some portions of ""Conclusions and
> Recommendations:
> Minister's closing speech" from the International
> Conference on Buddha
> Sasana in Theravada Countries (January 2003,
> Colombo) However, I think
> there was no one there to represent Burma, and to
> give her views because
> the following excerpts hardly reflect the situation
> of Pali studies in
> Burma.
>
> >Concerns have been expressed about its preservation
> as well as its
> >circulation nationally and internationally. A grave
> danger has been
> >identified in the dwindling interest in Pali
> studies in countries where it
> >was a language of very great importance.
> >
> [. . .]
>
> >Underlying all problems in this area is the
> inadequacy of attention paid to
> >Buddhist education. It is certainly disturbing that
> we do not have a well
> >established Buddhist educational system in the
> region.
> >
> [. . .]
>
> >One is that the study of Pali language is gradually
> given less and less
> >emphasis owing, mainly, to the overemphasis on
> job-oriented mode of
> >education. It was noted that in many Buddhist
> countries, Pali was taught as
> >a subject in normal school curriculum some time ago
> but it is no longer the
> >case. More than a problem of resources such as
> teachers and textbooks this
> >is a problem of attitudes.
> >
> >
> [. . .]
>
> >Pali has been an essential aspect in the monastic
> education. . . . In some Buddhist countries,
> however, it is getting less and less attention as a
> result of Buddhist monks opting to study secular
> subjects.
> >
> >
> [. . .]
>
>
> I think the situation of Pali studies in Burma would
> be interesting
> because it is probably different from all other
> Theravadin countries.
> Accordingly, I hope you won't mind my detailed and
> necessarily boring
> account here.
>
> If we are to speak of the Pali studies in Burma, we
> must divide it into
> two parts: the modern (secular) education and the
> monastic education.
> Yes, they are two entirely different worlds; they
> have different manners
> of thinking; they almost speak different languages.
>
> In the secular part, it is in the worst possible
> plight. In fact, I just
> cannot think of how it will find more ways to get
> worse in future.
>
> Even though Pali is not included in our school
> curriculum, it is taught
> at the universities. We have departments of Oriental
> Studies (the
> official term), which are in fact departments of
> Pali and Buddhist
> studies. (You learn Sanskrit only at MA level)
>
> The main problem is that students cannot choose the
> subject they wish to
> major in, nor to change them. They must apply with a
> list of choices of
> more than 30 subjects---the most popular being the
> medical profession,
> the second one engineering, etc--- and their
> applications are to be
> judged on the merits of their grades in the High
> School final exam.
> Pali has a low position in the popularity chart and
> also comparatively
> low yearly admission quotas; accordingly a student
> would need a rare
> combination of low grades and bad luck to end up in
> the Pali department.
> Consequently, new students of Pali silently curse
> their kamma and just
> try to get degrees as soon as possible. Of them,
> only those who have
> little hope to get better jobs elsewhere would go on
> to post graduate
> studies at universities.
>
> In such a situation, Pali departments cannot expect
> students to become
> competent scholars. They have to cope by begging
> already retired
> professors to give lectures, and sometimes even by
> inviting monks, who
> are not "educated" in the modern sense of education.
>
> However, it is entirely different in monastic
> circles. In Burma, monks
> are not permitted to work as a wage-earners nor as
> businessmen; we don't
> have even the right to vote --- if an election is
> held, of course. Thus
> we are not to know what the job-oriented culture
> is.On the other hand,
> it means that there is no material incentive in
> Buddhist studies. A
> monk's material circumstances are not directly
> related to his learning.
>
> Then what are the circumstances that promote
> Buddhist studies among
> monks? It is mainly the social pressure. The primary
> duty of a young
> novice or a young monk is to study. They are *not
> obliged* to give any
> fee for their education; the institutions of
> monastic education are
> supposed to provide students not only education but
> also food and
> lodging. A student's chances of success solely
> depends on his own merit,
> good teachers, and the atmosphere of his monastery.
> There may be
> financial constraints but nothing severe enough to
> deter a student from
> the academic success he deserves. On the other hand,
> younger monks and
> novices are generally not encouraged to meditate nor
> to give dhamma
> talks though they may be "permitted" to do these
> things provided their
> studies are not disturbed.
>
> And Buddhist studies is the only one socially
> acceptable, and in some
> cases the only alternative, for monks in Burma.
> Secular schools and
> universities *cannot officially accept* a novice or
> a monk as a
> student.(The Buddhist University where I studied is
> solely for monks and
> novices)
>
> In such a condition, Buddhist studies in monastic
> circles cannot but be
> strong, for there is nothing else to learn. (But it
> has also been badly
> hurt by the overall degeneration of the national
> economy and political
> instability)
>
> And the archaic nature of the monastic education is
> such that Buddhist
> scholarship means Pali scholarship at least, with
> possibly some more
> things. If one has to use translations as the main
> source, he or she is
> viewed as a journalist, possibly a popular writer,
> but definitely not as
> a scholar. Period.
>
> You would be surprised to know that a typical
> student of Pali in
> Burmese monasteries does not possess a Pali
> dictionary! Beginners rely
> instead on /nissaya/s (word-for-word translations)
> but their progress is
> measured by the extent of their growing independence
> from /nissaya/s.
> One hallmark of scholarship is the ability to
> ignore /nissaya/s in
> one's daily reading, and to use them only very
> occasionally as
> references when a controversy arises. The typical
> tools of a Buddhist
> scholar that he would daily use are the commentarial
> literature, classic
> grammars, and possibly a compilation of verbal roots
> such as Saddaniiti
> Suttamaalaa, Dhaatvatthasa`ngaha, etc.
>
> It is true that we have published dictionaries.
> Perhaps you may know
> that the comprehensive Tipitaka Pali-Burmese
> Dictionary has been
> published in more than (20) volumes and still not
> complete. But what is
> remarkable here is that its compilers are working
> for others' sake!
>
> However, there is a real problem with Buddhist
> scholars of the
> traditional background. They are not familiar with
> modern research
> methodology, and they generally do not understand
> the modern mind-set
> since they live in their own world as outsiders of
> the society. You
> might be surprised to know that there is almost no
> co-operation between
> monks and some remaining scholars who are laymen
> educated in western
> universities because mutual understanding is almost
> nil.
>
> Worse still, they usually concentrate on Pali only;
> few who would go on
> to learn Sanskrit, and even fewer would learn
> English and other modern
> languages. In fact, the knowledge of English and
> other modern foreign
> languages is generally viewed as an implicit
> indication of a weakness in
> Buddhist scholarship since many of monks studying
> modern languages
> happen to be losers in monastic education.
>
> Consequently, those able to make contributions at
> the international
> level are very rare. And unfortunately, what
> communications we have had
> with the Western academia in the past is not very
> encouraging ( I think
> I shouldn't go into details here because these
> events are not much
> related to what we used to discuss here. I think I
> should publish them
> elsewhere in future, probably at my web log
> <http://palithought.blogspot.com>) It means that
> even the few who are
> capable of contributing to International Pali
> studies won't feel
> inclined to do so. And I cannot see any improvement
> yet in this respect
> in near future.
>
> with metta
>
> Ven. Pandita
>
>
>
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>
>