Re: greetings and a couple of questions

Hi Dan,

Welcome to the group!

<< Too many things have clicked into place at the same time, and I can
no longer postpone my Pali studies, which I am essentially just
beginning. I won't be able to spend a tremendous amount of time on
it -- just enough to raise some questions. [Since I know all of you
from other lists, I will dispense with an introduction.] >>

<< 1. I got a copy of Warder, which looks pretty good, but the style is
somewhat different from the beginning European language textbooks
I've read. In particular, it seems to be missing a concise but
thorough summary of the grammar. Can anyone recommend something that
gives such a summary? >>

I don't know off-hand exactly where you would find "a concise but thorough
summary of the grammar" in a Western-style textbook.You could try using the
table of contents in Duroiselle's Pali grammar for now which is available
online in PDF format. A thorough summary of the grammar would certainly be
quite helpful. Perhaps someone might know of one.

<< 2. Warder glosses "bhava" as "existence, good fortune," while
Nyanatiloka uses the more active "becoming, process of existence."
Nyanatiloka's certainly fits better with my understanding of bhava-
tanha, which raises an important question. Is there a good Pali-
English dictionary that anyone can recommend? >>

There aren't too many to choose from. The one I use the most is the Pali
Text Society's Pali-English Dictionary (PED) by Rhys Davids and Stede. A new
dictionary by Margaret Cone has recently come out which I'm planning to
order soon. Only the first volume (A-KH) has been published so far. I think
the old dictionary will still be useful to have alongside the new one. I
also think any Pali-English dictionary is worth having. The one by
Buddhadatta is a good one too and can be downloaded from the files section
of the Pali Yahoogroups list. The very expensive Critical Pali Dictionary is
the largest and most scholarly one published in the West (Copenhagen) but it
is far from being completed and I only have the parts covering the vowels. I
don't know if it has gone past the gutturals yet.

Dictionaries do have their limitations. The meanings of "bhava" that you
give from Warder and Nyanatiloka are only a few of its several meanings.
There is a good explanation of the word "bhava" in the fourth chapter of
Aggava.msa's Padamaala (the first volume of the Saddaniiti). I'm not too
familiar with the explanation so I really can't say much. It seems that six
meanings are given (vuddhi, sassata.m, sampatti, pu~n~na.m, sahokaasaa
khandhaa, & sa.msaaro). Perhaps 'becoming' correlates to 'vuddhi' (growth,
increase) and it looks like 'good fortune' correlates to 'sampatti'
(success). Existence and process of existence are harder to deal with. The
'bhava' in 'bhavata.nhaa' refers to the eternalistic view (sassatadi.t.thi).
I had to check with the commentaries for this explanation which goes
something like this: passion/desire (raaga) accompanied by the eternalistic
view. Di.t.thi has to be read in between bhava and ta.nhaa. I give this as
an example of how one could seek out the meanings of a word other than in a
dictionary or a glossary.

<< 3. I ran across a sentence Nyanamoli translated as "`This noble truth
[8fnp] must be penetrated to by maintaining in being the way leading
to the cessation of suffering.'" I believe the Pali is "'Ta½ kho
panida½ dukkhanirodhag±min² paµipad± ariyasacca½ bh±vetabbanti me.'"
(Vin. Mv. 1:6), which raises two questions: (a) What is the
convention here for pasting Pali quotes into posts? and (b) He seems
to be using "maintaining in being" for bh±vetabbanti. This has a
peculiar feel to it... Can somebody help improve on that translation?
Or is it just fine? >>

To your question (a) the convention here for pasting Pali quotes is the
Velthuis scheme. You can use Andy Shaw's Palitrans 2.0 for converting your
quote to this scheme but I think because of its brevity it would be quicker
to just change it manually as I have done here:

"'Ta.m kho panida.m dukkhanirodhagaaminii pa.tipadaa ariyasacca.m
bhaavetabbanti me.'"

As to (b) the Pali quote does not match Nyanamoli's translation and so one
can't compare the two until the correct Pali quote can be found. It might
help if you could identify the book and page ref. where you saw the
translation and check to see if the Pali source is given. I couldn't find
any match in the Mahavagga.

<< Nice to be here with you all.

Dan >>

It's good to have you with us.

Jim


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