Re: Jim's Questions Addressed 2

Dear Jim

How are you?

Thank you for your informative post.

Jim: My understanding is that each one of those short so-called
statements in the Ekakanipaata is a sutta.

Suan: I do like the idea of calling those unitary Paali lines or
unitary passages suttam. After all, is not another meaning of the
term "suttam" a thread? Moreover, each aphorism in traditional Saddaa
texts is called a sutta.

So we could even translate the phrase "navame" as "in the ninth
thread" or as "in the ninth aphorism.


Jim: Thanks for the information. Have you ever seen that gigantic
Pali-Myanmar dictionary Teng Kee has mentioned a few times? I forget
how many volumes he said it had, maybe 15 or so. I don't know the
Myanmar language but I can read its script for Pali. I have two Pali
grammars and the Abhidhaanappadiipikaa in that script.

Suan: What a coincidence! I was thinking about mentioning to you this
gigantic Pali-Myanmar dictionary. I strongly recommend you to get
hold of as many volumes as available. Even if you do not read Myanmar
language, with your knowledge of Myanmar script, you can still use it
as a Pali-Pali dictionary because it either defines terms in Pali or
provides quotation sentences in which the terms appear, helping you
to be able to figure out the meaning. Plus extensive references in
Pali abbreviations.

I have 8 arbitrary volumes of this great dictionary, and plan to get
remaining volumes. I do not know how many!

Jim: I think you must've meant 'literal' not 'lateral'.

Suan: Yes, Jim, thank you for correction. When I wrote the post, I
was already sleepy just like now at about 2.30 a.m.

Jim: I did some searching and found a few interesting explanations in
the Netti commenataries and also in ~Naa.namoli's translation of the
Nettippakara.na (The Guide, p. 49 fn 165/1) where he translates
bhavanga as 'factor of being'. The Nettivibhaavinii has this helpful
bit: 'tattha bhava"ngaani kileso bhavassa anga.m kaara.na.m
kammava.t.tavipaakava.t.taani bhavasa"nkhaataani a"ngaani avayavaani.'
~Naa.namoli says that its meaning in the Netti differs from that in
the Abhidhamma. The Netti seems to be using it in a wider sense by
calling each of the 12 constituents of pa.ticcasamuppaada a bhavanga.
I thought that perhaps bhavangacitta could refer to the third
constituent 'vi~n~naa.na' which happens to include the 19
bhavangacittas according to my reading at Vism. XVII.120.


Suan: The above information is very useful, and I will look into it
tomorrow. Now I am very, very sleepy.


With regards,

Suan






--- In palistudy@..., "Jim Anderson" <jimanderson_on@...> wrote:
> Dear Suan,
>
> Thanks for taking the time to answer my questions. Please read on
for
> my comments.
>
> Jim asked:
>
> "When you translate 'navame' as 'In the ninth statement' does
> 'statement' here stand for 'sutte' (understood)?"
>
> Suan: As you might have noticed, Ekakanipaata, Anguttara Nikaayo,
> comes with groups (vaggaa)containing unitary statements. So 'navame'
> refers to the ninth statement in the fifth group. I am not sure if
we
> could call it a suttam in the normal sense, but we could certainly
> treat it as a suttam statement because Anguttatra Nikaayo belongs to
> the Suttam Pitaka.
>
> Jim: My understanding is that each one of those short so-called
> statements in the Ekakanipaata is a sutta. My reason for this is
based
> on the final line of the ekakanipaata found in both the PTS and Thai
> Budsir edns. which read: Ekanipaatassa suttasahassa.m samatta.m.
> The CSCD vers. doesn't have this but has the numbering 1-611 (=611
> suttas) which falls well short of a 1000 suttas which leaves me
> wondering if some have gone missing. It is not clear to me whether
the
> Buddha uttered these suttas one at a time on separate occasions or
> would utter a group (vagga) of them on the same occasion.
>
> Jim asked:
>
> "Why do you choose 'brown' for 'niila'? I have not seen that colour
> for niila in any of the dictionaries I've looked up so far. The
> colours listed have been blue, dark blue, blue-black, blue-green."
>
> Suan: I chose "brown" for "niila" as found in a Pali-Myanmar
> dictionary I have. Yes, it gives three colors: brown, green-brown,
> and blue. But, Myanmar Sayadaws including Mahasi Sayadaw
consistently
> translate "niila" as "brown". So I follows suit.
>
> Jim: I find this quite surprising. I believe most of the English
> translations would show a preference for "blue" especially in the
> context of the colour kasinas and dhatus which makes sense because
> blue, yellow, and red are well-known as primary colours.
>
> Suan continues:
>
> The Pali-Myanmar dictionary I refer to is
called "Padatthamañjuusaa",
> and compiled by U Hoat Sein, a great Chinese Pali scholar, who first
> planned to compile a Pali-English dictionary, but later changed his
> mind when Pali Text Society published their PTS dictionary.
>
> Jim: Thanks for the information. Have you ever seen that gigantic
> Pali-Myanmar dictionary Teng Kee has mentioned a few times? I forget
> how many volumes he said it had, maybe 15 or so. I don't know the
> Myanmar language but I can read its script for Pali. I have two Pali
> grammars and the Abhidhaanappadiipikaa in that script.
>
> Jim: "I'm interested in your translation of 'bhavanga' as 'life-
> cause'. I know that 'anga' can have the meaning of hetu or kaara.na.
> I've tried searching for a definition of bhavanga on the CSCD but
> haven't found anything so far. Do you know where I could find such a
> definition in the commentaries? Nyanatiloka in his Buddhist
> Dictionary says:"...is explained in the Abhidhamma-commentaries as
> the foundation or cause (kaara.na) of existence"
>
> Suan: I merely gave one of the lateral meanings (live-component and
> life-cause) of "bhavanga". I haven't come across the commentary
> explanation. As soon as I found one, I will let you know.
>
> Jim: I think you must've meant 'literal' not 'lateral'. I did some
> searching and found a few interesting explanations in the Netti
> commenataries and also in ~Naa.namoli's translation of the
> Nettippakara.na (The Guide, p. 49 fn 165/1) where he translates
> bhavanga as 'factor of being'. The Nettivibhaavinii has this helpful
> bit: 'tattha bhava"ngaani kileso bhavassa anga.m kaara.na.m
> kammava.t.tavipaakava.t.taani bhavasa"nkhaataani a"ngaani
avayavaani.'
> ~Naa.namoli says that its meaning in the Netti differs from that in
> the Abhidhamma. The Netti seems to be using it in a wider sense by
> calling each of the 12 constituents of pa.ticcasamuppaada a
bhavanga.
> I thought that perhaps bhavangacitta could refer to the third
> constituent 'vi~n~naa.na' which happens to include the 19
> bhavangacittas according to my reading at Vism. XVII.120.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jim
>
>
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