Re: Nina's transl. co 49. A.N. I 51

Dear Nina,

AA i 60 (on AN I.49):
katha.m? yathaa hi siilavantaa aacaarasampannaa maataapitaro
vaa aacariyupajjhaayaa vaa dussiilaana.m duraacaaraana.m
avattasampannaana.m puttaana~nceva antevaasikasaddhivihaarikaana~nca
vasena ``attano putte vaa antevaasikasaddhivihaarike vaa na tajjenti  na
sikkhaapenti na ovadanti naanusaasantii''ti ava.n.na.m akitti.m labhanti,
eva.msampadamida.m veditabba.m.

N: Why is that so? People may be observing morality, and may be provided
with a teacher, but because of bad morality, of bad teachers, of people who
do not do their duty, the parents and the preceptors “ do not censure their
own children, their pupils, their co-residents, do not train them, exhort
them, admonish them.”
And thus, they acquire a bad appearance and a bad name, and this
consequence should be known.

J: According to PED and Warder, 'katha.m' has the two meanings of how? and
why?. I'm not sure which is the more appropriate one for this translation. I
think the question could be put more fully as "how is the bhavangacitta
defiled by oncoming defilements?" or "why is the bhavangacitta defiled by
oncoming defilements?" It is worth noting that both Aggava.msa and Panini
only take the meaning of 'how?' (kena pakaarena? = in what way or manner?).
However, there is an interpretation of 'katha.m' as 'why' (kena kaara.nena =
by what reason or cause?) at Ja III 81 so there is some commentarial support
but I think it may be in much less frequent use as I think Aggava.msa would
have included it in one of his suttas if it were otherwise.

I"m afraid your translation has some major mistakes in it. For example,
you've translated 'aacaarasampannaa' as 'provided with a teacher'. 'aacaara'
does not have the meaning of 'teacher' (aacariya) but means something like
'good behaviour or conduct'. The whole sentence is a simile (upamaa) divided
into two main parts, the first begins with 'yathaa hi' and the second begins
with 'eva.msampadam'. 'yathaa' (as) and 'eva.m' (so) are common components
of a simile. Usually it is just 'eva.m' but here we have it joined with
'sampadam' but I still think we're dealing with a simile.

Here's my try at a translation:
"For, as parents, teachers, or preceptors, of good conduct, possessed of
good behaviour, because of the children, pupils, or co-residents [being] of
bad conduct, misbehaved, disobedient, receive dispraise or disapproval thus
"they neither scold, discipline, nor admonish their own children, pupils, or
co-residents"; so should this [bhavangacitta] having a [similar] consequence
be understood." <end>

So, well-behaved parents, etc. are the bhavangacittas while the misbehaved
children, etc. are the oncoming defilements.

There is still the last part of your translation for me to go over and a
reply to it is forthcoming.

Best wishes,
Jim


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