Re: choosing satipatthana

Dear Teng kee,
Thanks for this. I think most of the places where teachers are
choosing objects is for objects of samattha? In those days there
were still the types of arahants who could compass the minds of
others and have a better idea of the tendencies of their
students perhaps?
Of course the decline in the sasana is very apparent; wrong
views and practices seem to be increasing everyday. We can
witness on dsg how hard it is to even establish the most basic
level of correct understanding, let alone higher levels.

I agree ,  that , as you say :"I like to add that emerge from
kasina
> jhana,brahmavihara jhana .anusatti etc are in
> satipatthana too because in samyutta nikaya -buddha
> said all asekha/sekha ariya people is
> practising/dwelling in satipathana.So we cannot said
> samathayanika is only emerge from vedana
> anussati,sariputta could be emerge from kasina while
> listening to buddha like culapatthanka did .""
Yes this is all clear from the commentaries.
However, now is the time when  the lowest path, that of the dry
insight worker should be stressed. In the netti it notes that
the buddha taught insight alone to those who are have 'blunt'
faculties- the slow ones like all of us at this stage of the
sasana.
Dear Jim ,
I hope this discussion is not too distrating from the aim of
psg?
robert



--- Ong Teng Kee <ongtkee@...> wrote:
> Dear Robert,
> We are living in the sasana period where the teachers
> are not ariya fruition people. In com ,you can find a
> lot of stories whereby teachers choosing subjects for
> the students esp. in sri lanka monk stories.That is
> why in digha nikaya buddha said teacher without
> fruiton is inferior.we are clearly in the period of
> losing of patipati day by day until 3000 buddhist era.
> > It is not mentioned because satipatthana sutta is only
> for 5 khandha but kasina etc are concept.
>
>
>
>
> -- robertkirkpatrick@... wrote:
> > Dear Teng kee,
> > Yes, it is a perplexing one where the commentaries
> > seem to have
> > different conclusions. I think we can see that for
> > some of us some
> > aspects of nama and rupa are easier (relatively) to
> > comprehend
> > directly than others. I find rupa as vanayatana
> > gradually becomes a
> > little more known as it is; but nama  hardly at all.
> > It shows my
> > accumulations, my type. But if I try to choose a
> > foundation based on
> > this wouldn't there be an idea of control. Sometimes
> > lobha is very
> > apparent and then it is clear that the foundation at
> > that moment is
> > citta  but I wouldn't conclude from that I should
> > take citta as my
> > sole foundation.?
> > . The Sangha raja of Cambodia questioned Tan Ajarn
> > Sujin on this in
> > December:
> >
> >
> > Sujin:Thus, the study on the level of theoretical
> > knowledge of the
> > Dhamma
> > (pariyatti) is the study of the names of realities.
> > At that
> > level the
> > characteristics of realities do not appear to panna.
> > Panna
> > should be
> > developed stage by stage so that the true nature of
> > realities
> > can be
> > directly known.
> >
> > But Sawong: The venerable Head Patriarch has some
> > questions. If
> > it is true that one cannot choose or select any
> > object for the
> > practice
> > of satipatthana, how do you explain that, as we read
> > in the
> > commentaries, objects are selected in accordance
> > with a person’s
> > temperament or
> > character, such as a greedy temperament (tanhā
> > carita) or a
> > speculative
> > temperament (di""hi carita) 7 . Furthermore, some
> > people have
> > samatha as
> > their vehicle, they have developed tranquillity and
> > insight, and
> > some
> > have vipassanā as their vehicle, they have developed
> > only
> > vipassanā. In
> > the Commentary to the Satipatthana Sutta a city with
> > four gates
> > has
> > been compared to nibbana, and it has been explained
> > that just as
> > people
> > can enter a city with four gates by anyone of these
> > gates, one
> > can attain
> > enlightenment by means of anyone of the four
> > applications of
> > mindfulness, mindfulness of the body, of feeling, of
> > citta and
> > of dhammas. How do
> > we have to understand this?
> >
> > Sujin: Usually when people read in the
> > scriptures about these subjects they desire to know
> > more about
> > this, or
> > they desire to act in a particular way. When they
> > hear about
> > different
> > temperaments, such as a person of an intelligent
> > temperament, a
> > ruminating temperament, or a hateful temperament,
> > they think of
> > themselves as
> > having such or such temperament and they choose a
> > particular way
> > of
> > development which suits their character. However, in
> > reality
> > this subject of
> > the Dhamma has been taught so that it is a condition
> > for the
> > arising of
> > panna that knows the truth. Only when one develops
> > satipatthana
> > panna
> > can arise and then a person can know what character
> > or
> > temperament he
> > has. Without the development of satipatthana he does
> > not know
> > realities
> > and he can only guess what kind of temperament he
> > has. There are
> >
> > qualities such as attachment, aversion, ignorance,
> > and also
> > panna,
> > understanding of the Dhamma. What temperament do we
> > have? This
> > is only thinking
> > and guessing. Everybody has these dhammas. Only when
> > panna
> > arises and
> > sati is aware we can know the truth about the
> > different
> > characters of
> > each individual, we can know how our accumulated
> > inclinations
> > are the
> > condition for our own temperament.
> >
> > Someone may guess about his
> > temperament and he may believe that he should
> > develop a
> > particular object among
> > the four Applications of Mindfulness. He hopes to
> > obtain a
> > result by
> > this way of practice. However, this is not the right
> > condition
> > for knowing
> > the truth of non-self of realities; it is not the
> > way to know
> > all
> > realities thoroughly. Someone may select an object
> > and fix his
> > attention on
> > that object since he believes that he has such or
> > such
> > temperament and
> > that he should therefore develop this particular
> > Application of
> > Mindfulness. At that moment he neglects awareness of
> > all the
> > objects he is
> > used to taking for self. Of what temperament is a
> > person when
> > attachment
> > arises, when aversion arises or when ignorance
> > arises? All these
> >
> > realities are non-self, anatta. Therefore, the wrong
> > view of
> > self cannot be
> > eradicated by selecting an object someone believes
> > is suitable
> > for his
> > temperament. It is true that in the development of
> > samatha the
> > object of
> > meditation is selected in accordance with someone’s
> > character.
> > By the
> > development of samatha defilements are subdued so
> > that calm
> > increases.
> > However, the development of vipassanā is different
> > from the
> > development
> > of samatha and it has a different aim, namely, the
> > eradication
> > of
> > ignorance. Ignorance of realities conditions the
> > wrong view
> > which takes
> > realities for self.
> >
> > Therefore, in the development of satipatthana there
> > should not be any selection of objects of
> > understanding. In the
> > “Path of
> > Discrimination”(Treatise I on Knowledge, Ch 1,
> > Section 1, All),
> > it has
> > been said:
> >
> > “Bhikkhus, all is to be directly known. And what is
> > all
> > that is to be directly known? Eye is to be directly
> > known,
> > visible object
> > is to be directly known, eye-consciousness...
> > eye-contact... any
> >
> > feeling that arises with eye-contact as its
> > condition
> === message truncated ===
>
>
>
>
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