Re: choosing satipatthana

Dear Teng kee,
Yes, it is a perplexing one where the commentaries seem to have
different conclusions. I think we can see that for some of us some
aspects of nama and rupa are easier (relatively) to comprehend
directly than others. I find rupa as vanayatana gradually becomes a
little more known as it is; but nama  hardly at all. It shows my
accumulations, my type. But if I try to choose a foundation based on
this wouldn't there be an idea of control. Sometimes lobha is very
apparent and then it is clear that the foundation at that moment is
citta  but I wouldn't conclude from that I should take citta as my
sole foundation.?
. The Sangha raja of Cambodia questioned Tan Ajarn Sujin on this in
December:


Sujin:Thus, the study on the level of theoretical knowledge of the
Dhamma
(pariyatti) is the study of the names of realities. At that
level the
characteristics of realities do not appear to panna. Panna
should be
developed stage by stage so that the true nature of realities
can be
directly known.

But Sawong: The venerable Head Patriarch has some questions. If
it is true that one cannot choose or select any object for the
practice
of satipatthana, how do you explain that, as we read in the
commentaries, objects are selected in accordance with a person’s
temperament or
character, such as a greedy temperament (tanhā carita) or a
speculative
temperament (di""hi carita) 7 . Furthermore, some people have
samatha as
their vehicle, they have developed tranquillity and insight, and
some
have vipassanā as their vehicle, they have developed only
vipassanā. In
the Commentary to the Satipatthana Sutta a city with four gates
has
been compared to nibbana, and it has been explained that just as
people
can enter a city with four gates by anyone of these gates, one
can attain
enlightenment by means of anyone of the four applications of
mindfulness, mindfulness of the body, of feeling, of citta and
of dhammas. How do
we have to understand this?

Sujin: Usually when people read in the
scriptures about these subjects they desire to know more about
this, or
they desire to act in a particular way. When they hear about
different
temperaments, such as a person of an intelligent temperament, a
ruminating temperament, or a hateful temperament, they think of
themselves as
having such or such temperament and they choose a particular way
of
development which suits their character. However, in reality
this subject of
the Dhamma has been taught so that it is a condition for the
arising of
panna that knows the truth. Only when one develops satipatthana
panna
can arise and then a person can know what character or
temperament he
has. Without the development of satipatthana he does not know
realities
and he can only guess what kind of temperament he has. There are

qualities such as attachment, aversion, ignorance, and also
panna,
understanding of the Dhamma. What temperament do we have? This
is only thinking
and guessing. Everybody has these dhammas. Only when panna
arises and
sati is aware we can know the truth about the different
characters of
each individual, we can know how our accumulated inclinations
are the
condition for our own temperament.

Someone may guess about his
temperament and he may believe that he should develop a
particular object among
the four Applications of Mindfulness. He hopes to obtain a
result by
this way of practice. However, this is not the right condition
for knowing
the truth of non-self of realities; it is not the way to know
all
realities thoroughly. Someone may select an object and fix his
attention on
that object since he believes that he has such or such
temperament and
that he should therefore develop this particular Application of
Mindfulness. At that moment he neglects awareness of all the
objects he is
used to taking for self. Of what temperament is a person when
attachment
arises, when aversion arises or when ignorance arises? All these

realities are non-self, anatta. Therefore, the wrong view of
self cannot be
eradicated by selecting an object someone believes is suitable
for his
temperament. It is true that in the development of samatha the
object of
meditation is selected in accordance with someone’s character.
By the
development of samatha defilements are subdued so that calm
increases.
However, the development of vipassanā is different from the
development
of samatha and it has a different aim, namely, the eradication
of
ignorance. Ignorance of realities conditions the wrong view
which takes
realities for self.

Therefore, in the development of satipatthana there
should not be any selection of objects of understanding. In the
“Path of
Discrimination”(Treatise I on Knowledge, Ch 1, Section 1, All),
it has
been said:

“Bhikkhus, all is to be directly known. And what is all
that is to be directly known? Eye is to be directly known,
visible object
is to be directly known, eye-consciousness... eye-contact... any

feeling that arises with eye-contact as its condition whether
pleasant or
painful or neither-painful-nor-pleasant is also to be directly
known...”


Further on all realities are summed up and it is said that all
of them
should be known thoroughly, not any reality is excepted.

But Sawong:
The venerable Patriarch wishes to express his appreciation,
anumodana,
to the Thai Buddhists who are a large group brought here by
Mother
Sujin, and who have come to Cambodia to support Buddhism. People
here
listen to the Dhamma now with great joy and happiness. The
Patriarch
considers himself as the host receiving his guests who bring
along the noble
Truths. He wishes to apologize if there is anything lacking or
anything
which is not as it should be.


Everybody begins to understand the subject of maha-satipatthaa.
They try to
grasp the meaning of satipatthana and thus they ask questions
all the
time about this subject. If there are questions which are not
suitable I
also wish to apologize to Mother Sujin.

As the host, the Patriarch
extends his blessings to everybody of this group and expresses
his
thankfulness.
-

  In palistudy@..., Ong Teng Kee <ongtkee@...> wrote:
> Dear Robert,
> You are asking the hardest question for
> satipatthana.No one i met know the answer.From U.
> prof. to forest monks.I did ask mahasi sayadaw 's best
> known teachers,they avoided  me directly.In handbook
> of mediatation by nyanaponika-he mentioned mahasi's
> teacher cannot understand satipatthana sutta,maybe he
> read the com and just couldn't understand it at
> all.Com cannot be wrong in this comment but maybe in
> some words grammar,history.
> Why  emerging from citta /dhamma cannot work for
> sariputta /moggallana who is samatha yanika better in
> feeling for sariputta,dhatu /inferior for moggalana
> .Why dhamma and citta cannot work for buddha's best
> students.Unthinkable for me until this moment for at
> least ten years!Hopefully not like this forever.
>
>
>
>
> --- Robert Kirkpatrick
> <robertkirkpatrick@...> wrote:
> > Dear Teng kee,
> >  you wrote:
> >
> > ---Dear Jonothan,
> > You said any 4 objects can be done for anyone.Please
> > beware that
> > com said
> > kaya and vedana for samathayanika /craving people
> > but citta and
> > dhamma for
> > sukkhavipassaka /viewing people.
> > ______
> > I think we have to look at a few areas here. In the
> > visuddhmagga
> > (I don't have it with me) I think I saw a section
> > where it says
> > that the differnt types of people is a general
> > classification
> > and in fact everyone has all the bad traits in
> > varying degrees.
> >
> > Here is a section from another commentary:
> > In the "Dispeller of Delusion"(PTS) p 137 paragraph
> > 564 it says "In respect of the classification of the
> > Foundations of Mindfulness. And this also takes
> > place
> > in multiple consciousness in the prior stage (prior
> > to
> > supramundane). For it lays hold of the body with one
> > consciousness and with others feeling etc."
> >
> > If anyone has further commets I would be interested.
> > robert
> >
> >
> > __________________________________________________
> >
>
>
>
>
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