Re: the 41 sounds

Jim

Just having another look at L.1, I agree that 'sounds'
is a better description than 'alphabet', for the
reasons you have given.

Just for fun, could you parse the first sutta?  It's
got me intrigued.  Hope this is not jumping the gun
too much, but it might help give us a feel for the
language as we go along.

Jon

PS  Many thanks for our well-researched comments on
the term 'meditator'.  It is as I thought.  It will
help my reading when I next meet this term. 

--- Jim Anderson <jima@...> wrote: > Dear
group,
>
> The first sutta of the Saddaniiti states:
>
> 1. appabhutekataaliisa saddaa va.n.naa.
>
> 1. The forty-one sounds beginning with 'a' are
> (called) va.n.na-s.
>
> The vutti comments:
>
> The forty-one sounds beginning with 'a' in the word
> (paavacana) of the
> Blessed One are called va.n.na-s as follows:
>
> a aa i ii u uu e o ka kha ga gha "na ca cha ja jha
> ~na .ta .tha .da
> .dha .na ta tha da dha na pa pha ba bha ma ya ra la
> va sa ha .la a.m
>
> 2. akkharaa ca te.
>
> 2. These (sounds) are also (called) akkhara-s.
>
> =========================
>
> There's still more to come. Here are some thoughts
> that came up while
> I was pondering over the first sutta. At first I was
> going to call the
> set of 41 sounds 'the alphabet' as that is what
> Warder, Narada, &
> Buddhadatta calls it in the introductory pages of
> their primers (but
> note that the consonants are listed without the
> accompanying 'a' as
> above). I wondered about this word 'alphabet' and
> felt that it had
> more to do with the graphic symbols used to
> represent the sounds
> rather than simply presenting a set of sounds
> (phonemes) used for a
> particular language. If one considers the English
> alphabet, many of
> the individual letters can have several
> pronunciations such as the
> simple vowels, 'c' (= s, k, sh), and so on. Although
> the English
> alphabet has only 26 letters the set of phonemes
> used in the language
> is far greater. One table shows English as having 24
> consonantal and
> 25 vowel sounds.
>
> The most important Pali grammars that follow the old
> Indian system
> are:
>
> 1. Kaccaayanavyaakara.na by Kaccaayana
> 2. Saddaniiti by Aggava.msa (12th cent. Burma)
> 3. Moggallaanavyaakara.na by Moggallaana
>
> I'm not sure of the dating of the 1st and 3rd but I
> know that the
> first is the oldest. There are also many other
> grammatical texts based
> on these three. AFAIK, nothing has been translated
> into English -- so
> if you want to study them you have to read them in
> Pali. They are
> available on-line for downloading. The one I have
> studied the most is
> the Saddaniiti which is the largest one with 928pp.
> in 3 vols. for the
> edition I use. The last volume (not online) is
> called the Suttamaala
> (garland of aphorisms). There are 1347 suttas,
> usually short, like the
> ones given at the top of this message and most of
> them are followed by
> explanations. The first 23 suttas deal with the
> sound system of Pali
> and I would like to present these to you. Warder's
> section on the
> alphabet is based on them but he does deviate on a
> number of points.
> What I have given so far is just the set of 41
> sounds. The
> classification of the sounds comes next. Kaccaayana
> and Aggava.msa
> agree on the exact set of 41. Moggallaana adds two
> more vowels (a
> short e & o) to make it 43. To me the set of 41
> sounds is a reduction
> of the language down to its simplest elements, the
> building blocks and
> in a way like the reduction of dhammas down to a
> small number of
> paramattha dhammas.
>
> Feel free to ask questions or make comments on
> anything relating to
> Pali. If you see anything in the primers or
> grammars, a Pali word
> or phrase or something you'd like to bring up for
> some feedback -- go
> ahead.
>
> Best wishes,
> Jim
>
>
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