[psgy11.txt Year 2011: Messages 3164-3318; January 4 - December 13, 2011 (155 messages). Note that many of the top-posted messages have been trimmed for convenience of readers. The text is saved in utf-8 text format which requires a unicode font having the special romanized characters for displaying Pali and Sanskrit letters correctly. Three appendices have been added at the bottom of this document: Appendix I: Index of 44 new subject-lines listed in chronological order with details Appendix II: Table of the number of new subject-lines introduced by each contributing member Appendix III: Table of the total number of message posted by each contributing member Source: The Pali Study Group (http://groups.yahoo.com/group/palistudy/messages Prepared by Jim Anderson, Dec. 11, 2012] #3164 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Tue Jan 4, 2011 12:14 pm Subject: Kc 51 [Kaccāyanabyākaraṇaṃ, Sandhikappa, Pañcamakaṇḍa, Sutta 51] 51. 59. Anupadiṭṭhānaṃ vuttayogato (150, 154). Anupadiṭṭhānaṃ upasagganipātānaṃ sarasandhīhi13 byañjanasandhīhi vuttasandhīhi ca yathāyogaṃ yojetabbaṃ. Those words with prefixes and particles, whose formations have not been shown, should be formed according to usage by the vowel-sandhi, consonant-sandhi or verse-sandhi according to usage. Pāpanaṃ (AbhiA. i, 466), parāyaṇaṃ (Khu. i, 335), upāyanaṃ, upāhanaṃ (Vin. īi, 272), nyāyogo, nirupadhi (Khu. i, 148), anubodho (AbhiA. i, 296), duvūpasantaṃ, suvūpasantaṃ, dvālayo, svālayo, durākhyātaṃ, svākhyāto, udīritaṃ (Khu. i, 131), samuddiṭṭhaṃ, viyaggaṃ, vijjhaggaṃ, byaggaṃ, avayāgamanaṃ, anveti (Khu. i, 13), anupag hāto (Khu. i, 41), anacchariyaṃ (Vin. iv, 39), pariyesanā (A. i, 570), parāmāso (Abhi. i, 93). Evaṃ sare ca honti. Examples: When a vowel follows. pāpanaṃ: pa āpanaṃ; p a āpanaṃ (10); p āpanaṃ (12); pāpanaṃ (11). parāyaṇaṃ: parā ayaṇaṃ; par ā ayaṇaṃ (10); par ayaṇaṃ (12); par āyaṇaṃ (15); parāyaṇaṃ (11). upāyanaṃ: upa ayanaṃ; up a ayanaṃ (10); up ayanaṃ (12); up āyanaṃ (15); upāyanaṃ (11). upāhanaṃ: upa āhanaṃ; up a āhanaṃ (10); up āhanaṃ (12); upāhanaṃ (11). nyāyogo: ni āyogo; ny āyogo (21); nyāyogo. nirupadhi: ni upadhi; ni r upadhi (35); nirupadhi. anubodho: anu bodho (23). duvūpasantaṃ: du upasantaṃ; du v upasantaṃ (35); du v ūpasantaṃ (25); duvūpasantaṃ. suvūpasantaṃ: su upasantaṃ; su v upasantaṃ (35); su v ūpasantaṃ (25); suvūpasantaṃ. dvālayo: du ālayo; dv ālayo (18); dvālayo. svālayo: su ālayo; sv ālayo (18); svālayo. durākhyātaṃ: du ākhyātaṃ; du r ākhyātaṃ (35); durākhyātaṃ. svākhyāto: su ākhyāto; sv ākhyāto (18); svākhyāto. udīritaṃ: u īritaṃ; u r īritaṃ (35); udīritaṃ. samuddiṭṭhaṃ: saṃ uddiṭṭhaṃ; sam uddiṭṭhaṃ (34); samuddiṭṭhaṃ. viyaggaṃ: vi aggaṃ; vi y aggaṃ (35); viyaggaṃ. vijjhaggaṃ: vi adhi aggaṃ; vi ajjh aggaṃ (42); vijjhaggaṃ. (byaggaṃ = viyaggaṃ). avayāgamanaṃ: ava āgamanaṃ; ava y āgamanaṃ (35); avayāgamanaṃ. anveti: anu eti; anv eti (18); anveti. anupaghāto: na upaghāto; an upaghāto (334); anupaghāto. anacchariyaṃ: na acchariyaṃ; an acchariyaṃ (334); anacchariyaṃ. pariyesanā: pari esanā; pari y esanā (35); pariyesanā. parāmāso: pari āmāso; par i āmāso (10); par āmāso (12); parāmāso (11). Pariggaho (D. ī, 50), paggaho (Khu. ix, 291), pakkamo, parakkamo (Abhi. i, 92), nikkamo (Abhi. i, 93), nikkasāvo, nillayanaṃ, dullayanaṃ, dubbhikkhaṃ (Vin. i, 8), dubbuttaṃ, sandiṭṭhaṃ (Vin. i, 112), duggaho, viggaho (D.i, 223), niggato (Suttanipātā. ī, 208), abhikkamo (M. īi, 302), paṭikkamo (Khu. vi, 171). Evaṃ byañjane ca. Sesā sabbe yojetabbā. When a consonat follows. pariggaho: pari gaho; pari ggaho (28); pariggaho. paggaho: pa gaho; pa ggaho (28); paggaho. pakkamo: pa kamo; pa kkamo (28); pakkamo. parakkamo: para kamo; para kkamo (28); parakkamo. nikkamo: ni kamo; ni kkamo (28); nikkamo. nikkasāvo: ni kasāvo; ni kkasāvo (28); nikkasāvo. nillayanaṃ: ni layanaṃ; ni llayanaṃ (28); nillayanaṃ. dullayanaṃ: du layanaṃ; du llayanaṃ (28); dullayanaṃ. dubbhikkhaṃ: du bhikkhaṃ; du bbhikkhaṃ (29); dubbhikkhaṃ. dubbuttaṃ: du uttaṃ; du v uttaṃ (35); du vv uttaṃ (28); du bb uttaṃ (20); dubbuttaṃ. sandiṭṭhaṃ: saṃ diṭṭhaṃ; san diṭṭhaṃ (31); sandiṭṭhaṃ. duggaho: du gaho; du ggaho (28); duggaho. viggaho: vi gaho; vi ggaho (28); viggaho. niggato: ni gato; ni ggato (28); niggato. abhikkamo: abhi kamo; abhi kkamo (28); abhikkamo. paṭikkamo: paṭi kamo; paṭi kkamo (28); paṭikkamo. Iti sandhikappe pañcamo kaṇḍo. Thus ends the fifth section of the chapter on sandhi Sandhikappo niṭṭhito. End of the Sandhi Chapter -- translation by Ven. U Nandisena, 2004 -- posted (with some minor editing) by Jim Anderson, 4 January 2011 (new moon, 9:03 GMT/UTC) #3165 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sat Jan 8, 2011 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Kc 51 Dear members, As you may have noticed, this sutta is the last one in the series for the Sandhikappa. I have decided to discontinue posting a sutta a week from Kaccāyana but may take it up again later on if warranted. Instead, I'm interested in taking a different approach (or at least give it a try) by combining the study of the Kaccāyana suttas with the study of the Brahmajālasutta. This means that the order in which we investigate the grammatical suttas will be geared to the order of the words in DN I. I would also like to add that my living circumstances have changed. I will no longer have internet access when I'm at my cottage retreat (about 3 months per year). Not wishing to pay for two phone lines, I had the cottage phone moved to my apartment in Orillia. I also think it would be good to spend part of the year without the internet and the telephone -- like in the old days. Best wishes to all in this new year, Jim #3166 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sat Jan 8, 2011 10:54 pm Subject: Re: Kc 51 Hi Jim, Thanks very much for all these postings from which I have learned a lot. Best wishes for a fulfilling (and awakening!) New Year! Bryan --- On Sat, 1/8/11, Jim Anderson wrote: [...] #3167 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Sat Jan 8, 2011 11:13 pm Subject: Re: Kc 51 Dear Jim, I will genuinely miss the very Buddhist rhythmic regularity of your Kaccāyana posts, which I always faithfully read, and which always reminded me of the current moon phase ;-) Thank you for your persistence. On the other hand, the idea of applying the grammatical suttas to DN I, which would be a more interactive project, sounds very appealing, and I look forward to your initiative and guidance in getting that idea in motion, even if in quite small, manageable steps. Yes, a Happy New Year of deep inner spiritual progress to one and all, with metta Khristos On 9 January 2011 09:24, Bryan Levman wrote: > > > Hi Jim, > > Thanks very much for all these postings from which I have learned a lot. > > Best wishes for a fulfilling (and awakening!) New Year! > > Bryan #3168 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Thu Jan 20, 2011 6:25 am Subject: Brahmajala Sutta & World Tipitaka Dear Friends, Just a late follow up on Jim's last message. I've been trying to return to my study of the Brahmajala Sutta, but am still only half-way through memorizing the Majjhima Sila. I'm happy to continue posting sections on the list, if there is interest. I know we were talking about the "World Tipitaka" a while back, that project in Bangkok that has been surrounded by much fanfare, secrecy, and importance, without providing the sort of substance one would expect from practising Buddhists. Most disappointing is their online version of the tipitaka, which must have required great effort and expertise in the computer field, yet doesn't come even close to providing the usability found even in tipitaka.org, for example. Anyway, I managed to get what I think is a complete copy of the texts found on their website, and am attempting to put together an off-line version. Just wondering if anyone is interested in obtaining a copy. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3169 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Thu Jan 20, 2011 11:43 am Subject: Re: Brahmajala Sutta & World Tipitaka Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, > Just a late follow up on Jim's last message. I've been trying to return > to my study of the Brahmajala Sutta, but am still only half-way through > memorizing the Majjhima Sila. I'm happy to continue posting sections on > the list, if there is interest. I'm also trying to return to the study of the Brahmajāla Sutta but have to put it off for a while longer yet as my attention and time continue to be dominated by events relating to my mother's deteriorating health since early October and her placement in a nursing home on Nov. 15. She passed away last week at the age of 90 from a heart disease. And being executor of her will, I now have the daunting task of dealing with the matters that follow upon a death. I have the Brahmajāla Sutta memorized up to the end of the Cūḷasīla and have gotten into the habit of reciting all the memorized portions of the sutta most mornings. My suggestion is for you to resume posting with the paragraphs of the Cūḷasīla as you did with the first six paragraphs of the sutta and then stop again for another long break. Hopefully, I'll eventually get back to the study of the sutta in depth and and my involvement with the list activities. Best wishes, Jim #3170 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Thu Jan 20, 2011 7:07 pm Subject: Strange Texts Here's a set of texts that look surprisingly similar to the set of texts at http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/ It's in the form of a Google Chrome extension, because Chrome extensions are easy to make. If you need a Firefox extension, please let me know and I can go to the trouble of making one of those too. https://capslock.accountservergroup.com/~sirimang/pali/WTChrome.crx Open this link in Google Chrome. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3171 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:23 pm Subject: World TIpitaka Just wondering if anyone actually downloaded the Chrome extension version of the World Tipitaka linked to in my last post. If it is too much of a bother to use Google Chrome, I can make a Firefox extension as well. The reason for making an extension is it allows for the necessary xml calls that don't seem to work with ordinary javascript. That and I can update it like the DPR if necessary. The method of browsing through the tipitaka in this extension is to use the , and . keys to go back and forth, once you've opened a section using the menu on the left. The shortcut keys don't work unless the current section has next and previous links at the bottom, but mostly it seems to be an easy hack to allow basic browsing through the set. #3172 From: Miyamoto Tadao Date: Sat Jan 22, 2011 2:45 pm Subject: Re: World TIpitaka Dear Ven. Yuttadhamma: The Chrome extension version of the World Tipitakaworks beautifully for me. That is, every character appears perfectly. Thank you very much. tadao --- On Sat, 2011/1/22, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: Just wondering if anyone actually downloaded the Chrome extension version of the World Tipitaka linked to in my last post. If it is too much of a bother to use Google Chrome, I can make a Firefox extension as well. The reason for making an extension is it allows for the necessary xml calls that don't seem to work with ordinary javascript. That and I can update it like the DPR if necessary. [...] #3173 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Jan 22, 2011 4:04 pm Subject: Firefox version of World Tipitaka Dear Friends, Try this one out in Firefox: https://capslock.accountservergroup.com/~sirimang/pali/WTFirefox.xpi And please do let me know if it works as expected. Sincerely, Yuttadhammo #3174 From: Branislav Kovacevic Date: Sun Jan 23, 2011 10:10 pm Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka It works with me... --- On Sat, 1/22/11, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: From: Noah Yuttadhammo Subject: [palistudy] Firefox version of World Tipitaka To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Date: Saturday, January 22, 2011, 4:04 PM Dear Friends, Try this one out in Firefox: https://capslock.accountservergroup.com/~sirimang/pali/WTFirefox.xpi [...] #3175 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Wed Jan 26, 2011 4:09 pm Subject: Annual Group Report for 2010 Dear List-members, This is a report containing information on the group postings and membership changes for the year 2010. For the year 2010 the membership increased from 51 to 63 with the addition of 12 new members and none leaving the group. The total number of messages posted for the year increased from 242 in 2009 to 396. As in previous years, I have collected all the messages together (after much trimming) into one zipped utf-8 text file (178KB) which you can download from the following link: http://pali.sirimangalo.org/palistudy/psgy10.zip I have added to this file a chronological index of the subject-lines for 2010 and 2 statistical lists, one for the number of subject-lines initiated per contributing member and the other for the number of messages posted per member throughout the year. All this is reproduced below. Many thanks to all our contributing members and readers. Next week the group reaches a 10 year milestone since its inception on February 2, 2001. May the existence of this group continue on for many more years to come. Best wishes, Jim ============================ Subject-lines listed by date for 2010 [note: original poster and message numbers are within square brackets; numbers within round brackets indicate total of messages for the month or for the thread if more than 1] January 2010 (40) 01 Kc 1 [Jim Anderson, initially #2765, Dec. 31, 2009] [2765-73, 2776-81, 2783-7] (20) 03 Critical Pali Dictionary [O.H. Pind] [2774] 05 Report on the group activity for 2009 [Jim Anderson] [2775] 06 textes bouddhiques du laos [O.H. Pind] [2782, 2790] (2) 08 Kc 2 [Jim Anderson] [2788-9, 2791-4] (6) 15 Kc 3 [Jim Anderson] [2795-8] (4) 19 use of the locative [O.H. Pind] [2799, 2802-4] (4) Pali Burmese script chart [Jim Anderson] [2800-01, 2807] (3) 23 Kc 4 [Jim Anderson] [2805] 30 Kc 5 [Jim Anderson] [2806] February 2010 (8) 05 Kc 6 [Jim Anderson] [2808] 14 Kc 7 [Jim Anderson] [2809] 22 Kc 8 [Jim Anderson] [2810] 24 Fw: New publications (PTS) [Jim Anderson] [2811] 25 back from Pune and uploaded another paper [Bhikkhu Pandita] [2812] Contd: back from Pune and uploaded another paper [Bhikkhu Pandita] [2813] 28 last paper revised and uploaded again [Bhikkhu Pandita] [2814] Kc 9 [Jim Anderson] [2815] March 2010 (6) 07 Kc 10 [Jim Anderson] [2816] 10 Again another research paper uploaded [Bhikkhu Pandita] [2817] 15 Kc 11 [Jim Anderson] [2818] 23 Kc 12 [Jim Anderson] [2819-20] (2) 30 Kc 13 [Jim Anderson] [2821] April 2010 (7) 06 Kc 14 [Jim Anderson] [2822] 14 Kc 15 [Jim Anderson] [2823] 21 Kc 16 [Jim Anderson] [2824] 23 Simon Hewavitarne edition of Ap [Chris Clark] [2825-6] (2) 28 Kc 17 [Jim Anderson] [2827-8] (=2) May 2010 (19) 06 Kc 18 [Jim Anderson] [2829] 13 mudhappasanna [Noah Yuttadhammo] [2830-34, 2836, 2838-42] (11) 14 Kc 19 [Jim Anderson] [2835, 2837] (2) 18 Metrical shortening [Chris Clark] [2843-44] (2) 20 Kc 20 [Jim Anderson] [2845] 27 Kc 21 [Jim Anderson] [2846-47] (2) June 2010 (4) 04 Kc 22 [Jim Anderson] [2848] 12 Kc 23 [Jim Anderson] [2849] 19 Kc 24 [Jim Anderson] [2850] 26 Kc 25 [Jim Anderson] [2851] July 2010 (105) 03 nesohamasmi [Jim Anderson] [2852, 2854-56] (4) 04 Kc 26 [Jim Anderson] [2853] 07 Tibetan [Bryan Levman] [2857] Tibetan again [Bryan Levman] [2858] 09 Test [Jim Anderson] [2859-62, 2864-5] (6) netaṃ mama [Bryan Levman] [2863,2935-8,2940] (6) 11 Kc 27 [Jim Anderson] [2866] Re: Chinese translation of 'Neta.m mama' [Jim Anderson] [2867] Mmd-p.t passage regarding Kc 1 (1 of 3) [Jim Anderson] [2868-76] (9) 15 Mmd-p.t passage regarding Kc 1 (2 of 3) [Jim Anderson] [2877-78,2886-88,2890-91,2893-94,2899,2903.2905] (12) Atthakatha Lookup [Noah Yuttadhammo] [2879-85,2889,2892,2897] (10) 17 Anomalies in the suttas? [Khristos Nizamis] [2895-96,2900,2902,2904,2906,2909,2963] (8) 18 Kc 28 [Jim Anderson] [2898] Question on Sutta Nipaata [Bryan Levman] [2901,2907-8] (3) 19 Mmd-p.t passage regarding Kc 1 (3 of 3) [Jim Anderson] [2910-22] (13) 25 Courtesy note re the "neta.m mama" discussion [Khristos Nizamis] [2923] 26 Kc 29 [Jim Anderson] [2924-34,2939,2941,2947,2949] (15) 30 Passage from MA iii.198 [Khristos Nizamis] [2942-6,2948,2950-6] (13) August 2010 (61) 03 Kc 30 [Jim Anderson] [2957-8] (2) 08 Scans of the original Burmese Chattha Sangayana Tipitaka [Jim Anderson] [2959-62,2964-8,2977.3023-8,3042,3083-4,3086] (19) 10 Kc 31 [Jim Anderson] [2969] 13 passambhaya.m [Noah Yuttadhammo] [2970-5] (6) 16 Kc 32 [Jim Anderson] [2976] 21 Was Dhammapala as Sinhalese bhikkhu? [Bh. Nyanatusita] [2978-81] (4) 22 Fw: Help me please. [Jim Anderson] [2982-91] (10) 24 Kc 33 [Jim Anderson] [2992] 28 the title 'Sayadaw' [Jim Anderson] [2993-3009,3011-2,3030] (20) 31 [no subject] [George Bedell] [3010,3013-7] (6) September 2010 (61) 01 Kc 34 [Jim Anderson] [3018] New Publication,Old Books [rahula_80] [3019-22] (4) 02 Analytical contents for Wijesekera's _Syntax of the Cases in the Pali Nikayas_ [Khristos Nizamis] [3029] 08 Kc 35 [Jim Anderson] [3031] 09 Paribbajakakatha [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3032-40,3044,3047,3051] (12) 11 Brahmajāla Sutta Para. 1 [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3041] Dhammapada commentary [Bryan Levman] [3043,3045-6,3048-50,3052-8,3060-7,3069-73] (26) 15 Kc 36 [Jim Anderson] [3059] 18 Brahmajāla Sutta Para. 2 [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3068] 23 Brahmajaala Sutta Cuulasiila (mp3 and Video) [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3074] Kc 37 [Jim Anderson] [3075] 26 Brahmajāla Sutta Para. 3 [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3076] 27 A paper rejected, revised and re-uploaded! [Bhikkhu Pandita] [3077-8,3080] (3) October 2010 (37) 01 Kc 38 [Jim Anderson] [3079] 02 Brahmajāla Sutta Para. 4 [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3081] 07 Kc 39 [Jim Anderson] [3082] 10 Brahmajāla Sutta Para. 5 [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3085] 11 Bernard Free Library [O.H. Pind] [3087] 13 Smith's Saddaniiti download [Jim Anderson] [3088-92] (5) 14 Kc 40 [Jim Anderson] [3093] 18 Brahmajāla Sutta Para. 6 [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3094-5] (2) 20 E. Ciurtin's The Buddha's Earthquakes [Jim Anderson] [3096] 23 Kc 41 [Jim Anderson] [3097] 25 Brahmajaala commentaries [Jim Anderson] [3098-3100] (3) 26 Sv I 2 with two .tiikaas (1) [Jim Anderson] [3101-5,3109-14,3116] (12) Re: sa.mki.n.nattaa viki.n.nattaa [Bryan Levman] [3106-8] (3) 30 Kc 42 [Jim Anderson] [3115] November 2010 (20) 06 Kc 43 [Jim Anderson] [3117] 13 Kc 44 [Jim Anderson] [3118] 18 Pacala vs. Capala [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3119-29,3131-34] (15) 21 Kc 45 [Jim Anderson] [3130] 28 Kc 46 [Jim Anderson] [3135] December 2010 (28) 01 The sense of 'sammati' in Thai/Cambodian editions of SN 5.10 Vajiraa Sutta [Khristos Nizamis] [3136,3138-9] (3) Buddhaghosa's citations in Visuddhimagga [Khristos Nizamis] [3137,3140-1,3143-51] (12) 05 Kc 47 [Jim Anderson] [3142] 06 Translations of Pāli texts [Chris Clark] [3152-3,3155-6] (4) 08 Digital Pali Reader - Tikas [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3154] 13 Kc 48 [Jim Anderson] [3157] 15 Another research paper uploaded [Bhikkhu Pandita] [3158] 20 Theragāthā-aṭṭhakathā [Chris Clark] [3159-61] (3) 21 Kc 49 [Jim Anderson] [3162] 28 Kc 50 [Jim Anderson] [3163] New subject lines initiated by: Jim Anderson 66 Noah Yuttadhammo 13 Bhikkhu Pandita 6 Bryan Levman 6 Khristos Nizamis 6 Chris Clark 4 O.H. Pind 4 Bh.Nyanatusita 1 George Bedell 1 Rahula_80 1 Total of 108 new subject-lines No. of posts per contributing member: 138 Jim Anderson 50 Bryan Levman 48 Khristos Nizamis 48 Noah Yuttadhammo 17 Lennart Lopin 13 Chanida Jantrasrisalai 12 Nyanatusita Bhikkhu 10 Chris Clark 9 Ma Vajira 9 Ole Holten Pind 9 Petra Kieffer-Pülz 7 Bhikkhu Pandita 6 Susanne Goetz 5 George Bedell 4 L.S. Cousins 3 Mahinda Palihawadana 2 Richard Hayes 1 John Kelly 1 Miyamoto Tadao 1 Peter Masefield 1 Rahula_80 1 Robert Kirkpatrick 1 Steven Collins Total of 396 messages posted for the year 2010 by 23 members. #3176 From: "George Bedell" Date: Thu Jan 27, 2011 12:05 am Subject: New Book Activity in Pali traditional grammar seems to be dormant at present, but the following new book recently came to my attention, and I thought some us might not know about it. Mahesh A. Deokar Technical Terms and Technique of the Pali and the Sanskrit Grammars Sarnath, Varanasi, India: Central Institute of Higher Tibetan Studies pp. xxii+428 2008 HC Rp. 530; PB Rp. 380 The book covers all major Pali grammars plus A.s.taadhyaayii (Paa.nini), Kaatantra and Caandra Sanskrit grammars. The bulk of the book is a kind of concordance of grammatical terminology. There is also a rather skimpy chapter on 'technique'. According to the Foreword by E. Kahrs, the book 'represents a landmark in Paali scholarship' and 'takes the study of the Paali significantly forward and lays the foundations for other scholars to continue work in this field.' I ordered a copy online from kkagencies. #3177 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Thu Jan 27, 2011 5:08 pm Subject: Re: New Book George, Thank-you for letting us know about this new and interesting book. I wonder if the author is the same Prof. Deokar that Bhikkhu Pandita met at the University of Pune more than a year ago. He is head of the Pali deparment there and also blind which is rather unusual. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "George Bedell" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 26, 2011 7:05 PM Subject: [palistudy] New Book > Activity in Pali traditional grammar seems to be dormant at present, but > the following new book recently came to my attention, and I thought some > us might not know about it. > [...] #3178 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Fri Jan 28, 2011 8:22 am Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka Dear Ven. Yuttadhamma, Finally, I've had a chance to explore the improvements and additions you've made to DPR, as well as the full text of the World Tipitaka Edition as a parallel program. I just had to express my appreciation for - and excitement about - all the diligent and intelligent work you've done, and yet again to thank you for the excellent research and learning tool that you are so generously sharing with all of us. Some observations: The new layout is pleasing and very workable. I like the way the dictionary is working: e.g., showing diacritics in the dictionary entry window for words selected from the text; the formatting refinements to the dictionary entries, which make them much more legible at a glance; and the inclusion of references to eponymous suttas and vaggas for key words such as e.g. 'paññā' and for proper nouns is very useful. (The compound parser window just slightly overlaps with the alternative dictionary entry listings under the selected word (in the horizontal bar dividing the text and dictionary windows), but it's not really very difficult to negotiate around it. Having that functionality is much more important.) The text search function is working beautifully and powerfully. The addition of the 'history' window is a great and long-awaited blessing! The Aṭṭhakattha search function within the dictionary is fantastic, ah, what a wonderful resource! All of this makes me still more eager and enthusiastic in my study of Pali and the suttas. There are no doubt other changes, improvements and additions that I haven't mentioned or haven't yet come across, but even this much is worthy of sincere thanks. May the deep benefits you have made available to us for our study of the Dhamma ripen also as yours! With gratitude and metta, Khristos #3179 From: Bryan Levman Date: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:06 pm Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka bryan.levman Dear Khristos, How does one get the dictionary and compound parser working? I've been able to install the World Tipitaka OK, but I don't see either there. Thanks for your help, Metta, Bryan --- On Fri, 1/28/11, Khristos Nizamis wrote: From: Khristos Nizamis Subject: Re: [palistudy] Firefox version of World Tipitaka To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 8:22 AM Dear Ven. Yuttadhamma, Finally, I've had a chance to explore the improvements and additions you've made to DPR, as well as the full text of the World Tipitaka Edition as a [...] #3180 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:28 pm Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka Bryan, The World Tipitaka doesn't have any of the DPR's tools; it is just a basic set of texts. Khristos, I fixed the overlap issue; it doesn't occur in Chrome for some reason, so I missed it. Several other issues have been fixed now too. Please do let me know (everyone) if you find a bug. It looks like almost 200 people downloaded the DPR in the past two days. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On 11-01-28 11:36 PM, Bryan Levman wrote: > > Dear Khristos, > > How does one get the dictionary and compound parser working? I've been > able to install the World Tipitaka OK, but I don't see either there. > > Thanks for your help, > > Metta, Bryan [...] #3181 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Jan 28, 2011 6:29 pm Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka Oh, and I added a Tika terms list as well :) On 11-01-28 01:52 PM, Khristos Nizamis wrote: > > Dear Ven. Yuttadhamma, > > Finally, I've had a chance to explore the improvements and additions > you've > made to DPR, as well as the full text of the World Tipitaka Edition as a > parallel program. I just had to express my appreciation for - and > excitement about - all the diligent and intelligent work you've done, and > yet again to thank you for the excellent research and learning tool > that you > are so generously sharing with all of us. Some observations: [...] #3182 From: Bryan Levman Date: Fri Jan 28, 2011 10:25 pm Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, Thanks, I guess I misunderstood Khristos' email. I use DPR all the time and it's a great tool (and getting better)! Thanks again for it, Metta, Bryan --- On Fri, 1/28/11, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: From: Noah Yuttadhammo Subject: Re: [palistudy] Firefox version of World Tipitaka To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Friday, January 28, 2011, 6:28 PM Bryan, The World Tipitaka doesn't have any of the DPR's tools; it is just a basic set of texts. [...] #3183 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Jan 29, 2011 5:36 am Subject: Re: Firefox version of World Tipitaka I just fixed a bug that Khristos noticed that caused the index links to lead to the wrong book. There are a lot of things to keep track of, and fixing one issue creates another one in its place. Kind of like whack-a-mole. Should be better now, with 0.961 Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3184 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Jan 29, 2011 12:14 pm Subject: DPR, Brahmajala Sutta Sorry, as it turns out, I didn't fix the index bug in the end. It is fixed now in the latest version, afaics (0.962). I've also added the abhidhammattha-sangaha and its tika, which should be the last of the texts to add before a 1.0b release. I'm sorry I haven't begun the Brahmajala project, I've been a little preoccupied. Should clear up soon, and I'll be memorizing and posting again. #3185 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Jan 31, 2011 3:24 am Subject: Standards in Sutta numbering Dear Friends, Just wanted to get your thoughts on the numbering systems used in the various versions of the tipitaka out there. I just found out that accesstoinsight.org uses the PTS system, which is causing problems for the DPR, since, well, to put it simply, the PTS system is silly. Take, for example: http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.100.01-10.than.html http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/an/an03/an03.100.11-15.than.html Clearly these are two different suttas, but Woodward has them as one. This is not the only example; it looks like other versions are united against the PTS's mistakes. So, I guess my question is, is there any rationale for favouring one system over another? Any good reason for Woodward's decision? It would be nice to have a webpage somewhere with a standard system we could refer to. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3186 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:20 am Subject: Re: Standards in Sutta numbering Dear Ven. Yuttadhamma, for what it's worth, my way of working with this, although it may seem cumbersome and pedantic, is, whenever I record a reference to any sutta or part of a sutta, I make sure I provide all the main 'co-ordinates', so to speak, that anyone is likely to use to locate a text or passage. So, e.g., AN 3.2.5.10 Paṃsudhovakasutta (AN 3.100 (i-x), PTS AN i.253); but in the case of MN, I prefer: MN 143 Anāthapiṇḍikovādasuttaṃ* *(MN 3.5.1, PTS MN iii.258), although MN 3.5.1 (MN 143, PTS MN iii.258) would be more consistent. Anyway, the point, in my humble opinion, is making it as easy as possible for others (and myself) to locate suttas / passages under any system. I think a single system is impractical, given what is already set in place in the bulk of the primary, secondary, and tertiary printed literature. What *would *be very interesting and useful, I feel, is not a 'standard system' online, but rather, a comprehensive, detailed and accurate *concordance *between all the main systems that have ever been and are now being used. That way, someone who wants to quickly locate a scholar's reference to an otherwise unspecified passage at SN iii.5, but isn't lucky enough, e.g., to have a tool like DPR, can consult the concordance to discover that this passage can be found in the WTE under 3.1.1.1.1 Nakulapitusutta. (But here again, e.g., one can see how the PTS volume and page number system can be useful for quickly zeroing in on a specific section of the text.) So, my thought is not trying to force some impractical and impossible Single System, but to produce an elegant and comprehensive, easy to use Concordance between systems. With best wishes, Khristos The first system, which is very logical and orderly and perhaps arguably sort of organic to the Nikaayas, is of course the one used, e.g., by the World Tipitaka Edition and DPR. Personally, I find it very useful including the PTS volume and page number co-ordinates (it seems that some scholars in recent years have taken to including line numbers as well), not because they have any absolute value, but just as a convenient way of pinpointing starts of suttas or particular passages in longer suttas (just as degrees of longitude and latitude bear absolutely no relationship at all to the geography of the Earth, but can help you find a particular spot, nonetheless). On 31 January 2011 13:54, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > Just wanted to get your thoughts on the numbering systems used in the > various versions of the tipitaka out there. I just found out that > accesstoinsight.org uses the PTS system, which is causing problems for > the DPR, since, well, to put it simply, the PTS system is silly. Take, > for example: [...] #3187 From: John Kelly Date: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:25 am Subject: Re: Standards in Sutta numbering Dear Ven Yuttadhammo, You raise a very good question. It's unfortunate the PTS numbering is so confused. For the Nikayas, clearly there is no issue for DN and MN. It is SN and AN that are problematic. The problem arises because the original Pali has no numbers and the various editions of the Pali (Be, Ce, and so on) use differing numbering schemes based on how their editors choose to separate the suttas. I suggest DPR adopt the numbering system used by Sutta Central (suttacentral.net). I have been involved in this project and we have based our numbering on that used in the modern English translations by Bhikkhu Bodhi. For SN we use the numbering in his Wisdom Publications translation "The Connected Discourses of the Buddha", and for AN in his forthcoming translation "The Incremental Discourses of the Buddha", also to be published by Wisdom. Sutta Central has all these numbers on its website and wherever a sutta number differs from that shown by PTS, the PTS number is shown in square brackets. With metta, John ________________________________ From: Noah Yuttadhammo To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Mon, 31 January, 2011 1:24:14 PM Subject: [palistudy] Standards in Sutta numbering Dear Friends, Just wanted to get your thoughts on the numbering systems used in the various versions of the tipitaka out there. I just found out that accesstoinsight.org uses the PTS system, which is causing problems for the DPR, since, well, to put it simply, the PTS system is silly. Take, for example: [...] #3188 From: Nyanatusita Date: Mon Jan 31, 2011 10:32 am Subject: Re: Standards in Sutta numbering Hello, Here is a page with the abbreviation system used in BPS publications. It gives the abbreviation scheme of the Pali Text Society (PTS) as given in the Dictionary of Pali by Margaret Cone as well as Ven. Bodhi’s system of abbreviating suttas as used in Connected Discourses of the Buddha: http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/img/paliabbreviationsystem.html Regards, Bh Nyanatusita On 31-1-2011 4:24, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Just wanted to get your thoughts on the numbering systems used in the > various versions of the tipitaka out there. I just found out that > accesstoinsight.org uses the PTS system, which is causing problems for > the DPR, since, well, to put it simply, the PTS system is silly. Take, > for example: [...] #3189 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Tue Feb 1, 2011 9:51 am Subject: Re: Standards in Sutta numbering Bh Nyanatusita, The page is very useful. It shows that the system established by Helmer Smith and Dines Andersen in A Critical Pali Dictionary (= CPD) has left its mark. See CPD Epilegomena. Regards, Ole Holten Pind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Nyanatusita" To: Sent: Monday, January 31, 2011 11:32 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Standards in Sutta numbering Hello, Here is a page with the abbreviation system used in BPS publications. It gives the abbreviation scheme of the Pali Text Society (PTS) as given in the Dictionary of Pali by Margaret Cone as well as Ven. Bodhi’s system of abbreviating suttas as used in Connected Discourses of the Buddha: http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/img/paliabbreviationsystem.html Regards, Bh Nyanatusita [...] #3190 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Wed Feb 9, 2011 4:01 pm Subject: Fw: New Publication: Dictionary of Pali, Vol 2 This important announcement just arrived in my inbox. --ja ----- Original Message ----- From: "Pali Text Society" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 09, 2011 9:55 AM Subject: New Publication: Dictionary of Pali, Vol 2 Dear Members, The Pali Text Society is pleased to announce the publication of Part 2 of Margaret Cone's Dictionary of Pali covering the letters g-n. This is a truly significant publication for both Pali studies and Buddhist studies more generally. The first volume of Margaret Cone's Dictionary (2001) covered the letters a-kh, and thus overlapped in its coverage with the incomplete Copenhagen A Critical Pali Dictionary (the last fascicle of which, ending with the letter ka, will be published later this year). Part 2 of Margaret Cone's Dictionary of Pali thus represents the first substantial advance in Pali lexicography since the early 1920s, when the relevant portion of T.W. Rhys Davids and W. Stede's Pali-English Dictionary was published. Two further parts of this Dictionary are currently being prepared, and the Dictionary is likely to remain the principal lexical resource for scholars working with Pali texts for some generations to come. ISBN 086013 487 3 List Price � 40.00 -- Ms Karen Wendland, M.A. (Office Administrator) Pali Text Society c/o CPI Antony Rowe Ltd Unit 4 Pegasus Way Bowerhill Industrial Estate Melksham, Wilts SN12 6TR, U.K. Tel / Fax: +44 (0) 117 923 8015 URL: http://www.palitext.com #3191 From: "Stephen Hodge" Date: Thu Feb 10, 2011 6:12 pm Subject: Sanskrit Materials [Sorry for X-posting] Dear All, Some users will know Gerard Huet's Sanskrit-French Dictionary and other computer related work. I came across this exhaustive and detailed set of five listings of Sanskrit conjugations and declensions ~ it gives all the forms for thousands of roots. It might be useful for some here or inspire somebody to compile the same for Pali. There are other ways to get these indices, but this site has the full set: http://www.golden-wheel.net/biblio/Frenchlanguage/textes/ Look down to the 14th item where there is a block beginning "Sanskrit-adverbs" etc. Have fun ! Stephen Hodge #3192 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sun Feb 20, 2011 9:13 pm Subject: Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) Dear members, I have a question regarding the following passage at the beginning of Dhammapāla's ṭīkā on the Sumaṅgalavilāsinī: Saṃvaṇṇanārambhe ratanattayavandanā saṃvaṇṇetabbassa dhammassa pabhavanissayavisuddhipaṭivedanatthaṃ, taṃ pana dhammasaṃvaṇṇanāsu viññūnaṃ bahumānuppādanatthaṃ, . . . (Sv-pṭ I 1) which I roughly translate as: The veneration of the jewel-triad at the commencement of the commentary is for the sake of making known the source, basis, and purity of the Dhamma to be commented upon; furthermore, it (taṃ) is for the sake of generating the respect of wise ones for commentaries on the Dhamma, . . . Can anyone explain why the neuter pronoun 'taṃ' is used here ? I take it that the referent of 'taṃ' is 'ratanattayavandanā' which is in the feminine and so I would expect a feminine pronoun instead of a neuter one. Best wishes, Jim #3193 From: Bryan Levman Date: Mon Feb 21, 2011 12:28 am Subject: Re: Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) Dear Jim, The only thing that makes sense grammatically is that ta.m is referring back to attha (which can be a neuter noun) in the previous clause - this is the only other noun in the nom. except for vedanaa which of cousrse is fem. So the sense of it would be that veneration is for such and such a purpose (i. e..making known various aspects of the Dhamma) and that purpose is for such and such additional (captured by pana) purpose, i. e. generating the respect of wise ones for commentaries. That's the only way I can see it, - let me know what you think Best wishes, Bryan --- On Sun, 2/20/11, Jim Anderson wrote: From: Jim Anderson Subject: [palistudy] Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, February 20, 2011, 9:13 PM Dear members, I have a question regarding the following passage at the beginning of Dhammapāla's ṭīkā on the Sumaṅgalavilāsinī: [...] #3194 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Mon Feb 21, 2011 11:36 am Subject: Re: Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) Dear Jim, As you indicate by "..." the passage is not complete. The last part omitted by you also starts with tam and ends in attham. Thus the veneration of the three jewels has three purposes (°attha.m). The ta.m in the second attha.m-sentence in my opinion represents dhamma, and is to be understood as acc.s.g.m. to viññū, it represents what the viññū know. The locative dhammasaṃvaṇṇanā is the indirect object to viññū and stands for that with regard to which the viññū have to develop respect. The ta.m at the beginning of the third attha.m-clause also refers to dhamma, and forms the acc.sg. object to uggahadhāraṇa- I would translate: The veneration of the jewel-triad at the commencement of the commentary serves the purpose of ...; serves the purpose of generating respect for the commentaries on that Dhamma (that for which respect shall be developed regularly stands in the loc.) of those who understand (viññūnaṃ) this very [Dhamma(, i.e. the one described in the previous sentence)], for the sake of accomplishing the well-being and happiness of all [beings] by means of the perfect practice (sammaapa.tipatti) which may be attained by them (tesa.m) by the method of taking up/learning, maintaining etc. this (ta.m) [Dhamma]. Here ta.m is acc.sg. object to the compound Hope this helps, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de #3195 From: Soe Naung Date: Mon Feb 21, 2011 6:02 pm Subject: Re: Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) Dear Jim, Today I happen to check out your group mails, and notice your question. I will try to give my version by modifying your own (I am lazy [?]). Before doing so, I should note that such pieces of text are commonly found in the sub-commentarial literature to answer the implicit question: "If the commentator wishes to explain the Piṭaka, why doesn't he go ahead with his business but choose to waste time by writing verses of homage to the Triple Gem?" Only when we know the hidden question that we will be able to understand the answer. Saṃvaṇṇanārambhe ratanattayavandanā saṃvaṇṇetabbassa dhammassa pabhavanissayavisuddhipaṭivedanatthaṃ = "The veneration of the jewel-triad at the commencement of the commentary is for the sake of making known the purity of the source and the basis of the Dhamma to be commented upon." You should notice that I analyze the compound "pabhava ..." differently. Why? The Buddha is the source of the Dhamma while the Sangha is the basis on which the Dhamma relies for its survival. If the source and the basis are pure, it goes without saying that the Dhamma must be pure too. taṃ pana dhammasaṃvaṇṇanāsu viññūnaṃ bahumānuppādanatthaṃ = "It (that is, making known the purity of the source and the basis of the Dhamma to be commented upon) is for the sake of generating the respect of wise ones for commentaries on the Dhamma." If the Dhamma is pure, its purity must also be reflected upon its commentaries. Therefore the knowledge of the Dhamma's purity will lead the wise ones to love its commentaries. Here the pronoun taṃ refers to the "pabhanissayavisuddhipaṭivedana" of the last compound. This is why taṃ is in neutral gender, for paṭivedana, the last and predominant compound member is neural gender itself. Hope it helps. with metta Ven. Pandita #3196 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Mon Feb 21, 2011 7:26 pm Subject: Re: Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) l I do not think that the compound pabhavanissayavisuddhipa.tivedhana has to be understood as Ven. Pandita thinks ("making known the purity of the source and the basis of the dhamma"). Since the whole compound refers to dhamma, it is much more probable, that the dhamma is seen from the three perspectives represented by the jewel-triad; from its origin (pabhava) [it stems from the buddha], from its foundation (nissaya) [it is in agreement with what else is taught as dhamma] and from its purity (visuddhi) [it has been handed down purely by the sangha]. Best, Petra [...] #3197 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Tue Feb 22, 2011 3:10 am Subject: Re: Re: Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) Thank-you Bryan, Petra, and Ven. Pandita for your helpful answers to my question. I haven't decided which is the most plausible but I have more to go on now. Petra's suggestion of ta.m as the object of viññūnaṃ is very interesting as the idea of an agent-nonn taking an object in the accusative is new to me. I think this also occurs in ". . .tathārūpiṃ vācaṃ bhāsitā" in the Brahmajālasutta. And also Ven. Pandita's suggestion that part of a compouud could be the referrent for a subsquent pronoun is interesting. I have started a long-termed project of working through the commentaries (the aṭṭhakathā and its 2 ṭīkās) on the Brahmajālasutta and this includes the introductory parts in its entirety (i.e. ganthārambhakathā and nidānakathā). I'm at the beginning of the old and new ṭīkās and will proceed with these until ī get to the parts that start to comment on the actual words in Buddhaghosa's first introductory verse. At this point I will jump ahead to the part that deal with the beginning of the sutta (i.e. the four parts of speech), then back to verse 1 on page 1 of Sv. There will be lots of going back and forth in this way until the end of the nidānakathā.is reached. Best wishes, Jim #3198 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Feb 25, 2011 3:38 am Subject: BPS Abbreviations Dear Friends, Just noticed that actually the BPS list of abbreviations: http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/img/paliabbreviationsystem.html is also missing books 3-7 of the Abhidhamma. Does anyone have the full list of abbreviations from the Dictionary of Pali for these as well as the Petavatthu? Thanks in advance, Yuttadhammo #3199 From: Chris Clark Date: Fri Feb 25, 2011 4:11 am Subject: RE: BPS Abbreviations Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, A lot of the abbreviations in Cone's DOP are missing from this list. The ones you are after are: Dhātuk (Dhātukathāpakaraṇa + commentary), Pp (Puggalapaññatti), Kv (Kathāvatthu), Yam (Yamakapakaraṇa), Tikap (Tikapaṭṭhāna) and Pv (Petavatthu). Finally, hot off the press is the abbreviation Dukap (Dukapaṭṭhāna), listed only in the recently published second volume of the DOP. Regards, Chris ---------------- Dear Friends, Just noticed that actually the BPS list of abbreviations: http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/img/paliabbreviationsystem.html [http://www.bps.lk/olib/wh/img/paliabbreviationsystem.html] #3200 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Feb 26, 2011 3:18 am Subject: RE: BPS Abbreviations Dear Chris, Thank you, that's helpful, though I must say I'm a bit turned off by the choice of "abbreviations" - what kind of abbreviation is "Dhātuk"? Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On Thu, 2011-02-24 at 20:11 -0800, Chris Clark wrote: > > > Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, > > A lot of the abbreviations in Cone's DOP are missing from this list. > The ones you are after are: Dhātuk (Dhātukathāpakaraṇa + commentary), > Pp (Puggalapaññatti), Kv (Kathāvatthu), Yam (Yamakapakaraṇa), Tikap > (Tikapaṭṭhāna) and Pv (Petavatthu). Finally, hot off the press is the > abbreviation Dukap (Dukapaṭṭhāna), listed only in the recently > published second volume of the DOP. > > Regards, > Chris > [...] #3201 From: Nyanatusita Date: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:19 am Subject: Re: BPS Abbreviations Hello, A complete list of Pali literature, with all abbreviations of the Critical Pali Dictionary and DOP, is here: http://www.bps.lk/other_library/reference_table_of_pali_literature.pdf and here: http://www.sub.uni-goettingen.de/ebene_1/fiindolo/gretil_elib/Nyt008__Nyanatusit\ a_ReferenceTableOfPaliLiterature.pdf There are no abbreviations for individual books of the Paṭṭhāna, etc, in CPD and DOP, so Dukap and Tikap, are not included. Regards, Bhikkhu Nyanatusita On 26-2-2011 4:18, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > Dear Chris, > > Thank you, that's helpful, though I must say I'm a bit turned off by the > choice of "abbreviations" - what kind of abbreviation is "Dhātuk"? > > Best wishes, > > Yuttadhammo [...] #3202 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sat Feb 26, 2011 11:24 am Subject: Re: BPS Abbreviations Dear Phra Yuttadhammo, Dhātuk is also in the list of abbreviations used for the Critcal Pali Dictionary. That list can be found here: http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/intro/vol1_epileg_abbrev_texts.html Many of these abbreviations are the same ones adopted by Margaret Cone for her dictionary and were originally coined by Helmer Smith, I believe. I try to follow these as much as possible. The CPD abbreviation for the abhinavaṭīkā on the Sumaṅgalavilāsinī (1st vagga) is Sv-nṭ. The author names his ṭīkā the Sādhuvilāsinī (18th-19th cent.) according to the tenth introductory verse on page 2 (Sv-nṭ I 2 (Be)). Best wishes, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noah Yuttadhammo" To: Sent: Friday, February 25, 2011 10:18 PM Subject: RE: [palistudy] BPS Abbreviations Dear Chris, Thank you, that's helpful, though I must say I'm a bit turned off by the choice of "abbreviations" - what kind of abbreviation is "Dhātuk"? Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3203 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Feb 26, 2011 12:46 pm Subject: electronic Pali dictionaries in other languages Dear All, First, thanks for the information on abbreviations... I'm trying to adjust the DPR to follow the accepted standard. I see "Paṭṭh" is used for Paṭṭhaana on the page Jim sent. I'll go with that, I guess. Also, not to flood the mailing list with requests, but another one I have now that the DPR is shaping up, is whether anyone knows of the existence of concise electronic Pali dictionaries similar to Buddhadatta's CPED in languages other than English? Specifically, I'm looking for Pali>Burmese, Pali>Sinhala, and Pali>Thai, but other languages would be of interest as well. Thanks in advance, Yuttadhammo #3204 From: "bhikkhu" Date: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:16 am Subject: Two papers published in the Journal of Buddhist Ethics Dear members, With the agreement of the Journal of Buddhist Ethics editor, I have uploaded two papers which I have published therein. One is titled "Tithiyaparivāsa vis-à-vis Noviciation in Theravādin Monasticism" and the filename is parivasa_samanera_Final.pdf. The abstract is: "Tithiyaparivāsa is a particular type of probation in Theravādin monasticism that former ascetics of certain heretic groups must undergo if they wish to gain admission to the Buddhist Order. In the extant probation procedure as found in the Pāli Vinaya tradition, there is no explicit accounting for the stage of novicehood. Why? This paper attempts to answer that question and also in the process discovers an unexpected insight into the legally ambiguous status of noviciation." The other is titled "The Buddha and the Māgadha-Vajjī War" and the file name is Buddha.and.the.Magadha.Vajji.War_Final.pdf. The abstract is: "According to an account recorded in Mahāparinibbānasutta, the Buddha had to meet a royal minister named Vassakāra when King Ajātasattu ordered the latter to visit the Buddha and inform him about the king's plan to subdue the Vajjīs. After hearing Vassakāra, the Buddha spoke on seven Conditions of Welfare (satta aparihāniyā dhammā), which would ensure the prosperity of the Vajjīs as long as its citizens observed them. Vassakāra shrewdly inferred from the Buddha's discourse how to defeat the Vajjī people and later actually forced them into a submission. Regarding that event, there are some perplexing questions: 1. Why did King Ajātasattu choose to consult a wandering ascetic on a significant matter of state like fighting a war? 2. Vassakāra discerned how to defeat the Vajjīs from the Buddha's exposition of the Seven Conditions of Welfare (satta aparihāniyā dhammā). So did the Buddha intend to help Ajātasattu defeat the Vajjīs? If not, what was his purpose in expounding the seven Conditions of Welfare to Vassakāra? 3. If the Buddha really did not accept any kind of violence, as the tradition would have it, why did he not openly speak against it? This paper will attempt to answer these questions and will argue, in the conclusion, that this event shows the Buddha‖s disapproving attitude toward a political role of the Buddhist Order." These papers together with their earlier drafts are in the bhikkhu_pandita folder of the Files section. Those who care to compare the draft and final forms of the papers will see how the critical fire of the peer-review process has modified, and (I hope) improved the papers. with metta, Ven. Pandita #3205 From: "bhikkhu" Date: Sat Mar 19, 2011 7:37 am Subject: About Prof. Deokar Dear Jim, Sorry for coming to notice your message of January only now. --- you wrote: > > Thank-you for letting us know about this new and interesting book. I wonder if the author is the same Prof. Deokar that Bhikkhu Pandita met at the University of Pune more than a year ago. He is head of the Pali deparment there and also blind which is rather unusual. Yes, the same person. I met him in February this year when I visited Pune to attend a conference, but somehow this new book did not come into our conversation. So I come to know about his new book only now from the messages of Mr. Bedell and yourself. with metta, Ven. Pandita #3206 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:00 am Subject: Re: About Prof. Deokar Dear Ven. Pandita, Thanks for your response. I was able to confirm that the author of _The Technical Terms and Techniques of the Pali and the Sanskrit Grammars_ is indeed the same Prof. Mahesh A, Deokar, head of the Department of Pali at the University of Pune. The introductory pages of this book were scanned and sent to me and I would be glad to forward them to anyone on the list wanting to have a look at this part of the book which contains details about the contents and other introductory matter. The treatise is what Prof. Deokar submitted for his Ph.D in Pali and only 550 copies were printed unless it has since been reprinted. It discusses and compares 166 technical terms as used in 3 Pali grammars and 3 Sanskrit grammars. I notice in the Preface (pp. xxxi-xxxii) the mention of Ole Holten Pind's research work on the Pali grammars. Instead of wiriting "which is rather unusual" I should have written "which is rather remarkable", I can relate well to the challenges for a blind or visually impaired person. As many on the list will know, I'm both deaf and visually-impaired (Usher syndrome). Thanks for the recent upload of your two papers. Best wishes, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "bhikkhu" To: Sent: Saturday, March 19, 2011 3:37 AM Subject: [palistudy] About Prof. Deokar > > Dear Jim, > > Sorry for coming to notice your message of January only now. > > --- you wrote: >> >> Thank-you for letting us know about this new and interesting book. I #3207 From: "Susanne Goetz" Date: Sat Mar 19, 2011 10:53 am Subject: Re: Prof. Deokar's book Dear friends, I could send the table of content of Prof. Deokar's book (as a 9 MB pdf file) to anybody who wishes to have a closer look at it. I managed to get this book via far-distance loan from another university, and I have already arranged that it will be ordered from India for our own library in April. I find it very interesting and useful. Warm regards Susi -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone #3208 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sun Mar 27, 2011 8:47 am Subject: Dictionary of Pali Proper Names Dear Friends, I'm going through the electronic version of the DPPN and readding the dots as best I can. I got a hard-copy for a low price, only to find that pages 957 to 972 of volume 1 have been replaced by pages 189 to 204 by mistake. I wonder if anyone has a hard copy and can tell me if there are any entry titles (not words in the entry itself) with .t .d .n or .l in them. Thanks in advance, Yuttadhammo #3209 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Sun Mar 27, 2011 11:54 am Subject: Re: Dictionary of Pali Proper Names You may fetch a pdf file of the printed version from GRETIL elibrary. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P�lz Wilhelm-K�lz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar #3210 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Tue Mar 29, 2011 1:08 pm Subject: Re: Dictionary of Pali Proper Names Thanks to Mark for sending me the section and Petra for letting me know it's actually on-line. I've downloaded both volumes. On Sun, 2011-03-27 at 13:54 +0200, petra kieffer-Pülz wrote: > You may fetch a pdf file of the printed version from GRETIL elibrary. > > Best, > Petra > **************************************** > > Dr. Petra Kieffer-Plz > Wilhelm-Klz-Strasse 2 > 99423 Weimar [...] #3211 From: num sitdhiraksa Date: Tue Mar 29, 2011 10:55 pm Subject: Re: Dictionary of Pali Proper Names thanks for the online material information. very handy. Num On Tue, Mar 29, 2011 at 8:08 PM, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > > Thanks to Mark for sending me the section and Petra for letting me know > it's actually on-line. I've downloaded both volumes. > [...] #3212 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 9:07 am Subject: ārocesu Dear Friends, Can anyone tell me anything about the following sentence: "Atha kho te bhikkhū bhagavato etamatthaṃ ārocesu." other than that it is a typographic error? I'm about to submit a report to the VRI telling them their file: http://www.tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/vin01m.mul4.xml has the above typo in it. There are 98 instances of the sentence "Atha kho te bhikkhū bhagavato etamatthaṃ ārocesu." in the Vinaya Pitaka, and the 97 other instances all have "Atha kho te bhikkhū bhagavato etamatthaṃ ārocesuṃ." Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3213 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 12:54 pm Subject: Re: ārocesu Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, It certainly looks like a mistake. There is an alt. 3rd person plural for causative verbs, but in the uncontracted form which theoretically would be aarocayi.msu (aaroce.msu) per Geiger 168.4 and 159 re: Class IV verbs, but I have never seen it, Metta, Bryan --- On Sun, 4/10/11, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: From: Noah Yuttadhammo Subject: [palistudy] ārocesu To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" Received: Sunday, April 10, 2011, 9:07 AM Dear Friends, Can anyone tell me anything about the following sentence: [...] #3214 From: "L.S. Cousins" Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 2:54 pm Subject: Re: ārocesu Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, I can find only one occurrence in my files (converted from the VRI CD). That's at Vin III 209. So it looks as if the file has become corrupted. > Dear Friends, > > Can anyone tell me anything about the following sentence: > > "Atha kho te bhikkhū bhagavato etamatthaṃ ārocesu." > [...] #3215 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Sun Apr 10, 2011 3:02 pm Subject: Re: ārocesu Ven. Yuttadhammo, adding further confirmation to what has already been said, the Chaṭṭhasaṅgītipiṭakaṃ edition has "ārocesuṃ" in this same passage and sentence (Vol. I, p. 310, para. 510). On 10 April 2011 18:37, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > Can anyone tell me anything about the following sentence: > > "Atha kho te bhikkhū bhagavato etamatthaṃ ārocesu." [...] #3216 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Apr 11, 2011 2:39 am Subject: Re: ārocesu Thanks all, I've sent the error report, along with your comments. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3217 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 3:36 am Subject: bhikkhuve Dear Friends, Now that I'm analyzing all of the words in the VRI tipitaka that are not recognized by the DPR, I'm coming across quite a few problems with the former. Here's an interesting one: ‘‘tena hi, bhikkhuve, ime bhikkhū anuyuñjathā’’ti. http://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/vin01m.mul2.xml This is the only instance of the word "bhikkhuve" in the VRI tipitaka. Any thoughts? Yuttadhammo #3218 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 10:10 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, please check the World Tipitaka edition and the Myanmar Sixth Council edition. You'll find that both of them show ‘‘tena hi, bhikkhave, ime bhikkhū anuyuñjathā’’ti. Thank you for your hard work on DPR. With metta. On 22 April 2011 13:06, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > > Dear Friends, > > Now that I'm analyzing all of the words in the VRI tipitaka that are not > recognized by the DPR, I'm coming across quite a few problems with the > former. [...] #3219 From: Chris Clark Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:31 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, I’ve come across several cases where the VRI text differs from the Chaṭṭhasaṅgīti text in Burmese script. In each case it appears the VRI text is a typo. The worst case I have seen is the uddāna at the end of the third vagga of the Apadāna (mainly a list of names). The VRI text reads: susūti upavāno ca saraṇo sīlagāhako annasaṃsāvako khomadāyī ca daseva tatiye gaṇe. añjalī khomadāyī ca daseva tatiye gaṇe pañcālīsītisataṃ vuttā gāthāyo sabbapiṇḍitā. The Chaṭṭhasaṅgīti text reads: subhūti upavāno ca saraṇo sīlagāhako annasaṃsāvako dhūpo pulino uttiyena ca. añjalī khomadāyī ca daseva tatiye gaṇe pañcāsītisataṃ vuttā gāthāyo sabbapiṇḍitā. As you can see, there are multiple errors in the VRI text, especially line two of verse one, where the person doing the digital input must have read the wrong line! The digital versions are incredibly useful, but it seems they need to be used with caution. Venerable Yuttadhammo, if you are in contact with VRI, could you please tell them of this error? Regards, Chris -----Original Message----- From: nizamisk@gmail.com Sent: Fri, 22 Apr 2011 19:40:03 +0930 To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Subject: Re: [palistudy] bhikkhuve Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, please check the World Tipitaka edition and the Myanmar Sixth Council edition. You'll find that both of them show ‘‘tena hi, bhikkhave, ime bhikkhū anuyuñjathā’’ti. [...] #3220 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:38 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Thanks Khristos, Chris, Yes, it seems there are more errors than I though at first... I remember when it first came out there was quite a bit of boasting about how much verification went into the project; given the magnitude, it is hard to complain, I guess. Probably the best thing, as always, is to compare versions. To that end, I'm hoping to incorporate the Thai tipitaka into the DPR as an alternative to the VRI one. But I need help getting the sections to match up (Thai tipitaka goes by page reference only). I've created an app that facilitates this insertion, if anyone would like to help? There are 45 volumes, so 45 files have to be edited for the canon, then another 45 (I think?) for the commentaries. Please let me know. I've emailed help@tipitaka.org about one of the errors I found; no reply yet. I'll send the rest in, just in case they look at it. I imagine they get a ton of spam, though, putting their address on the website like that. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On Fri, 2011-04-22 at 03:31 -0800, Chris Clark wrote: > Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, > > I’ve come across several cases where the VRI text differs from the Chaṭṭhasaṅgīti text in Burmese script. In each case it appears the VRI text is a typo. The worst case I have seen is the uddāna at the end of the third vagga of the Apadāna (mainly a list of names). The VRI text reads: [...] #3221 From: Lennart Lopin Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 1:16 pm Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Bhante, Chris, You can also try contact them via this email address: vriindia@gmail.com metta, Lennart On Fri, Apr 22, 2011 at 7:38 AM, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > > Thanks Khristos, Chris, > > Yes, it seems there are more errors than I though at first... I remember > when it first came out there was quite a bit of boasting about how much > verification went into the project; given the magnitude, it is hard to > complain, I guess. [...] #3222 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Fri Apr 22, 2011 11:17 pm Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Ven. Yuttadhammo, I'm willing to try to help out as much as limited time allows, but you'd need to explain to me exactly what IT skills are required for the task. Also, I don't read Thai script. If you I can still be of help, please contact me offlist. with metta On 22 April 2011 21:08, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > > > Thanks Khristos, Chris, > > Yes, it seems there are more errors than I though at first... I remember > when it first came out there was quite a bit of boasting about how much > verification went into the project; given the magnitude, it is hard to > complain, I guess. [...] #3223 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 4:59 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve l Dear Khristos, Thank you, I'll contact you about this; there is hardly any IT skill involved; it's more figuring out where to insert the section heading - the program has a list of them and just inserts the next heading in the list where you tell it. The text are all roman unicode. One thing I'm hoping to correct first is the footnotes; does anyone have access to the Thai tipitaka with footnotes? I've come across the following sort of corrupted footnote in the texts I'm working with: mīkārkkhag ñānaṁ peḌna jhānaṁ I'm guessing this means: มีการหัก ญานํ เป็น ฌานํ (there was the substitution of "~naana.m" with "jhaana.m") Wonder if anyone can confirm this for me. The first instance is on page 188 of volume 1. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On 11-04-23 04:47 AM, Khristos Nizamis wrote: > > Ven. Yuttadhammo, > > I'm willing to try to help out as much as limited time allows, but you'd > need to explain to me exactly what IT skills are required for the task. > Also, I don't read Thai script. If you I can still be of help, please > contact me offlist. > > with metta [...] #3224 From: "Susanne Goetz" Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 8:28 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve l Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, I will send you a file with the footnotes. They might be useful although they are from an edition that is not yet in print. But you can compare them with your version. How does it come that you have a romanized Thai version? Did you just apply a software application that changes Thai script into Roman letters? Which digital version are you using? Kind regards Susi -- NEU: FreePhone - kostenlos mobil telefonieren und surfen! Jetzt informieren: http://www.gmx.net/de/go/freephone #3225 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 9:00 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Susi, I have my sources :) Actually I can't remember the name, but an Internet contact sent me the Roman files some time back. They got a little upset when I included them in the DPR, since I think they come from a copyrighted source. Actually, if I remember correctly, it was an encrypted, copyrighted source :) Thank you for the files, I can't make head or tail out of them yet... the page numbering is all different, as is the paragraph numbering, it seems. Is this the work of Phra Maha Sompong or Phra Maha Pranom? The latter mentioned something about a new version. On 11-04-23 01:58 PM, Susanne Goetz wrote: > > Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, > > I will send you a file with the footnotes. They might be useful > although they are from an edition that is not yet in print. But you > can compare them with your version. [...] #3226 From: "Susanne Goetz" Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 10:02 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, yes, I think Phramaha Pranom was his name. The MCU is working on a Tipitaka with included commentaries. Phramaha Sompong wasn't there that one afternoon in September last year; I would have wanted to see him, too, because of the Nissaya Tipitaka. By the way, do you or does anyone (Justin?) have Phramaha Sompong's email address? And does anyone know one of the following persons trained in "Pali Yai"? จำรูญ ธรรมดา, พระมหาประนอม ธมฺมาลงฺกาโร, พระมหาไพโรจน์ ญาณกุสโล, มนัส จอดพิมาย, สุภีร์ ทุมทอง, สมบูรณ์ เพ่งพิศ, ดวงมาลา มะกรูดทอง, ไพจิตร หิรัณยวนิชย์. They are all listed as authors of the Nissaya Tipitaka project. (Phramaha Sompong is listed as advisor or co-advisor.) Some information (in Thai) about the project is available here: http://nissaya.igetweb.com/index.php?mo=3&art=178418 They have done two volumes so far, starting with Dighanikaya. Volume 1 (published 2004) is the Brahmajalasutta, Volume 2 (published 2008) goes up to the Mahalisutta (6th Sutta). (Sorry, I can't produce diacritics, or at least I haven't found out yet how to use diacritics in emails as I'm writing in the browser and don't use an email programme.) I haven't had any chance to contact them yet; I needed a digital version of the Mahalisutta for my dissertation. Now a diligent person in Bangkok types it for me... But I might need to contact them anyway sooner or later, so if anybody has an idea how (email or mobile) or where (in case I will be back in Thailand before finishing my dissertation) I could be able to contact one of them, I'm always grateful for hints. So far I only know Phramaha Sompong and where to find him. Kind regards Susi -- Empfehlen Sie GMX DSL Ihren Freunden und Bekannten und wir belohnen Sie mit bis zu 50,- Euro! https://freundschaftswerbung.gmx.de #3227 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:40 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Susi, > yes, I think Phramaha Pranom was his name. The MCU is working on a > Tipitaka with included commentaries. > Great, he said it was started, but that was a few years a go. > By the way, do you or does anyone (Justin?) have Phramaha Sompong's > email address? > Funny, I should have it, but I don't... his phone that I have is 0813617735. I don't know that he uses email that much... Better to call, or ask at section 25 for him. > > And does anyone know one of the following persons trained in "Pali Yai"? > > จำรูญ ธรรมดา, พระมหาประนอม ธมฺมาลงฺกาโร, พระมหาไพโรจน์ ญาณกุสโล, มนัส จอดพิ > มาย, สุภีร์ ทุมทอง, สมบูรณ์ เพ่งพิศ, ดวงมาลา มะกรูดทอง, ไพจิตร หิรัณยวนิชย์. > I know the first three; the fourth sounds familiar, but the rest are unfamiliar. The first should actually be on this list, since I gave Jim his email address some time ago; he's the main force behind the nissaya tipitaka, Ajaan Jamroon (a lay man). The second is Phra Maha Pranom, whom we are talking about. The third is Phra Maha Pairoj, who taught Pali in Burma for many years. He's currently trying to get Pali 7 in Thailand, I think. > > They are all listed as authors of the Nissaya Tipitaka project. > (Phramaha Sompong is listed as advisor or co-advisor.) > > Some information (in Thai) about the project is available here: > http://nissaya.igetweb.com/index.php?mo=3&art=178418 > > > They have done two volumes so far, starting with Dighanikaya. Volume 1 > (published 2004) is the Brahmajalasutta, Volume 2 (published 2008) > goes up to the Mahalisutta (6th Sutta). (Sorry, I can't produce > diacritics, or at least I haven't found out yet how to use diacritics > in emails as I'm writing in the browser and don't use an email programme.) > > I haven't had any chance to contact them yet; I needed a digital > version of the Mahalisutta for my dissertation. Now a diligent person > in Bangkok types it for me... > > But I might need to contact them anyway sooner or later, so if anybody > has an idea how (email or mobile) or where (in case I will be back in > Thailand before finishing my dissertation) I could be able to contact > one of them, I'm always grateful for hints. So far I only know > Phramaha Sompong and where to find him. > They're all involved with section 25; best is to ask there. The head of the section is a great monk, very helpful. Ajaan Pairoj also lives there; he's the stern-looking monk, but actually very soft-hearted. Ajaan Pranom isn't so involved with s.25 anymore, he should be available at Wat Jaak Dang in Prapadang, where he is the vice-abbot. I would recommend either him or Ajaan Sompong, since they are the most outgoing. #3228 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 11:49 am Subject: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Friends, Vis a vis Ven. Yuttadhammo's discussion on textual forms, is anyone aware of any academic work done on the subject of Pali textual criticism - i. e. the origin and nature of the texts that have come down to us, the relation and differences between them, the process of oral and written textual transmission, reconciliation of variants, etc? In the field of the Jewish/Christian bible, an enormous amount of work has been done in this area, but they have manuscripts dating back to the 2nd and 3rd century BC, whereas most of our manuscripts are quite recent. I believe the oldest Pali manuscript is only about 450 years old, although we have recensions of the Dhammapada from the first and/or second century A. D. written in Gandhari. If anyone knows any scholarly work done on this subject I would appreciate a reference(s), Thanks, Bryan #3229 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:32 pm Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Yuttadhammo, It is amusing that the Burmese Cha.t.tha Sa.ngaayana CD-Rom contains the same error in the same passage. Oldenberg´s old edition Vin Vol. III p. 167 line 21 reads, as one would expect, bhikkhave. Regards, Ole Pind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Noah Yuttadhammo" To: Sent: Friday, April 22, 2011 5:36 AM Subject: [palistudy] bhikkhuve Dear Friends, Now that I'm analyzing all of the words in the VRI tipitaka that are not recognized by the DPR, I'm coming across quite a few problems with the former. Here's an interesting one: ‘‘tena hi, bhikkhuve, ime bhikkhū anuyuñjathā’’ti. http://tipitaka.org/romn/cscd/vin01m.mul2.xml This is the only instance of the word "bhikkhuve" in the VRI tipitaka. Any thoughts? Yuttadhammo #3230 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 12:49 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Bryan, To offer a (small indeed) suggestion to your (so broad!) question, I would like to point out the first, 2009 issue of the *Thai International Journal of Buddhist Studies*, especially the contributions by Nalini Balbir and Richard Gombrich, which are among the freshest and as a matter of fact the most excellent and up to date. Prof. Balbir's article includes further thoughts on this crucial topic, including a more feasible project of critically editing *separate* suttas for which we do have enough textual variants. As you well know, intense re-reading of Profs K R Norman (with his outstanding plea for reediting most of the PTS editions) and Oskar von Hin�ber's (including on the earliest Mln MS) longlife oeuvres may correctly posit this inquiry. But there are indeed joint academic programs for completing this huge task? The comparison you suggests with some 'religions of the Book' is not only apt: it deserved highly persuasive arguments for broadening the scope and academic presence of Buddhist Studies in general, in some recent publications of Prof Jonathan Silk. However, it goes sometimes unnoticed, it seems, that when we try (sometimes hard) to cast off those "Protestant presuppositions" once recurrent in Buddhist studies, we are still inspired by methods employed in earlier periods for other textual traditions, with the well-balanced aim at recovering what one recent Berlin program coined as 'Zukunftphilologie'. And from this angle your question, and the project as such, has its roots in Burnouf's works (published and still unpublished). with every good wish Eugen 2011/4/23 Bryan Levman > > > Dear Friends, > > Vis a vis Ven. Yuttadhammo's discussion on textual forms, is anyone aware > of any academic work done on the subject of Pali textual criticism - i. e. > the origin and nature of the texts that have come down to us, the relation > and differences between them, the process of oral and written textual > transmission, reconciliation of variants, etc? [...] #3231 From: "Susanne Goetz" Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:39 pm Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, Thank you for your answers! So Phramaha Sompong's place/section 25 seems to remain the best address for any Pali-Yai related issues, including the Nissaya Tipitaka. If you happened to see Achan Chamrun again, could you ask him for his email address again so that I could contact him? That would be great! -------------- Dear Bryan, thanks a lot for your question, and you, Eugen, for your answer! For anyone interested, here is more about the "Zukunftsphilologie" project in Berlin (a 7-page PDF): http://www.forum-transregionale-studien.de/fileadmin/pdf/zukunftsphilologie/zp.p\ df Kind regards Susi [...] #3232 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:32 pm Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Ole, Thank you, that's most helpful. Would that suggest that the VRI is not "wrong", or just that the Burmese CD is a copy of the VRI work? I've begun the process of adding Thai volumes to the DPR. So far, the first two volumes of the Vinaya. Anyone who would like to check them out is welcome to download the latest "alpha" DPR 2.0 here: http://pali.sirimangalo.org/digitalpalireader2.xpi To access the Thai volumes, open the first or second volume of the Vinaya, then hover over the almost invisible toolbar button in the top left of the section window, and click on the "Thai" button that appears. A screenshot of this is here: http://pali.sirimangalo.org/files/Screenshot-1.png I'll add more volumes as time permits; it's pretty easy now that I have the app working. I'm not sure if can expect others to help it, but it is included in the DPR2, I can explain how to access it. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On 11-04-23 06:02 PM, Ole Holten Pind wrote: > > Dear Yuttadhammo, > > It is amusing that the Burmese Cha.t.tha Sa.ngaayana CD-Rom contains the > same error in the same passage. Oldenberg´s old edition Vin Vol. III > p. 167 > line 21 reads, as one would expect, bhikkhave. > > Regards, > Ole Pind [...] #3233 From: Nyanatusita Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 3:53 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Bryan, K. R. Norman, Peter Skilling and especially Dr. von Hinueber have published a lot on the textual traditions of Pali . Norman's /A Philological Approach to Buddhism /and his /Collected Papers/, Hinueber's /Selected Papers/, /The Oldest Pali Manuscript /(a description and edition of the 4 folios of the Cullavagga, dating from the 8-9th century), /Notes on the Pali Tradition in Burma, Pali as an Artificial Language, /and Peter Skilling's articles on the Pali inscriptions in Thailand and Burma in the /Journal of the Pali Text Society /will give you a lot of information. Please also have a look at my articles on Pali Manuscripts of Sri Lanka and SE Asian Pali manuscripts in Sri Lanka. http://www.scribd.com/doc/34598208/Pali-Manuscripts-of-Sri-Lanka (You'd need to sign up to Scribd to see this, which is free. Otherwise I can send you a copy.) Regards, Bhikkhu Nyanatusita On 23-4-2011 17:19, Bryan Levman wrote: > > Dear Friends, > > Vis a vis Ven. Yuttadhammo's discussion on textual forms, is anyone > aware of any academic work done on the subject of Pali textual > criticism - i. e. the origin and nature of the texts that have come > down to us, the relation and differences between them, the process of > oral and written textual transmission, reconciliation of variants, etc? [...] #3234 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 6:42 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Eugen, Thanks very much for your response and helpful suggestions. Of course I am very familiar with Norman and von Hinueber's work. Von Hinueber was in Toronto this past weekend at a Conference on Buddhist Nuns sponsored by the Numata and I discussed some of the problems with him. The articles you recommended in the Thai Journal look right on topic. I was not able to locate the journal articles on the net. Do you know if they're available? Do you know where Norman makes the plea for re-editing the PTS? I have his complete works here. Also any other references you can give for the works of Silk or Burnouf on textual criticism would be appreciated. As someone whose primary work is with Buddhist texts (my area of research is the earliest recoverable language of Buddhism and the process of its transmission) I have long accepted the state of our texts as a "given", but it is becoming more and more apparent to me, that we can not just leave it at that, Warm regards, Bryan --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: From: Eugen Ciurtin Subject: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 12:49 PM Dear Bryan, To offer a (small indeed) suggestion to your (so broad!) question, I would like to point out the first, 2009 issue of the *Thai International Journal [...] #3235 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:20 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Ven. Nyanatusita, Many thanks for your reply. Is the Skilling article the same as "Traces of the Dharma" which I found in Bulletin de l'Ecole Francaise d'Extreme Orient? The other articles I have been able to locate. Also, could you please send me a PDF of your article, as I was not able to download it and it is not showing up properly on the screen. Thanks very much for your help,, Metta, Bryan --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Nyanatusita wrote: From: Nyanatusita Subject: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 3:53 PM Dear Bryan, K. R. Norman, Peter Skilling and especially Dr. von Hinueber have published a lot on the textual traditions of Pali . [...] #3236 From: Steven Collins Date: Sat Apr 23, 2011 7:46 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings There is also Margaret Cone's article 'caveat lector' in JPTS XXIX 2007. Steve Collins --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Bryan Levman wrote: > From: Bryan Levman > Subject: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings > To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com > Date: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 1:42 PM > Dear Eugen, [...] #3237 From: Chris Clark Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 12:06 am Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Bryan, Peter Skilling’s article in volume one of the Thai International Journal for Buddhist Studies is also relevant, as is Norman’s “Pāli Philology and the Study of Buddhism” (Collected Papers 4, pp. 80-91). The latter article compares textual criticism in Pāli studies with textual criticism in Biblical studies. Regards, Chris ------- Dear Eugen, Thanks very much for your response and helpful suggestions. Of course I am very familiar with Norman and von Hinueber's work. Von Hinueber was in Toronto this past weekend at a Conference on Buddhist Nuns sponsored by the Numata and I discussed some of the problems with him. [...] #3238 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 3:59 am Subject: Re: bhikkhuve Dear Susi, Yes, section 25 is the official home of Pali Yai studies in Thailand (Nirukti Suksa, as they call it). They have active ties with Burmese teachers and many Burmese monks come through there; it's been like that for decades, as I understand. They have courses on Pali yai, Pali noi, Visuddhimagga, etc.; Ajaan Sompong publishes lots of interesting books and manuals; I got one little book with Kaccayana and a dhaatu dictionary in one, meant for memorization. That's also the place where the Visuddhimagga Thai translation is published (the one translated by Somdet Buddhajaan while in jail). Jamroon's email is thainissaya@gmail.com ; that's what he gave me, anyway. I probably won't see him, though who knows; I may be in Bangkok for a day on May 14th. There is another place he works, but I can't remember the location; an office somewhere dedicated to the Thai Nissaya project, not in Wat Mahadhatu. You can surely find out at section 25. Please tell them Phra Noah sent you, and that I send my best regards (I stay there often when in Bangkok). Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On 11-04-23 09:09 PM, Susanne Goetz wrote: > > Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, > > Thank you for your answers! So Phramaha Sompong's place/section 25 > seems to remain the best address for any Pali-Yai related issues, > including the Nissaya Tipitaka. [...] #3239 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:22 am Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Chris, Thanks very much. Yes I am familiar with that article and it is lays out all the problems very succinctly - and some of the solutions as well! Best regards, Bryan --- On Sun, 4/24/11, Chris Clark wrote: From: Chris Clark Subject: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, April 24, 2011, 12:06 AM Dear Bryan, Peter Skilling’s article in volume one of the Thai International Journal for Buddhist Studies is also relevant, as is Norman’s “Pāli Philology and the Study of Buddhism” (Collected Papers 4, pp. 80-91). The latter article compares textual criticism in Pāli studies with textual criticism in Biblical studies. [...] #3240 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:37 am Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Steven, Thanks for this suggestion; I am not familiar with the article and I will get it, Best, Bryan --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Steven Collins wrote: From: Steven Collins Subject: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Saturday, April 23, 2011, 7:46 PM There is also Margaret Cone's article 'caveat lector' in JPTS XXIX 2007. Steve Collins [...] #3241 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:11 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Bryan, Thank you for your kind reply. I would like to add the following to other helpful suggestions: As far as I know the Thai journal is not available online, you may nevertheless check with Dr Alexander Wynne. If necessary I can provide a scan. The first SOAS lecture (and passim) in Norman.s A Philological Approach to Buddhism, 2nd ed. 2006, and K Crosby.s review in BSR. Gleanings from his Collected Papers would be of help, as his largest bibliography published recently in the JPTS. O von Hinueber.s articles, as well as some CPD reviews, repr. in his Kleine Schriften (2009). J W de Jong.s dozens of critical reviews in IIJ on pali/sk texts, not republished, sometimes with crucial, unsurpassed insights. L Alsdorf.s article on Vess in the 1st volume of WZKS, repr. 1974/2001 in his KS, and O von Hinueber.s monograph on Entstehung u. Aufbau d. Jataka-Sammlung, with several important reviews. Colette Caillat.s forthcoming Opera minora, ed. Nalini Balbir, PTS. Silk.s inaugural lecture for his chair in Leiden, once available on its website. As I was able to see the archive of Burnouf in BNF, Paris, and prepare an article on his unfinished projects, I would like to postpone a bit a more comprehensive reference. See however Akira Yuyama.s 2000 monograph on the beginnings of philological study of Buddhism. Sorry for being hectic, having now only mobile access due to Easter holyday in this part of Europe. Yours, Eugen Pe duminic�, 24 aprilie 2011, Bryan Levman a scris: > > Dear Steven, > > Thanks for this suggestion; I am not familiar with the article and I will get it, > > Best, Bryan > > --- On Sat, 4/23/11, Steven Collins wrote: > > From: Steven Collins [...] #3242 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 1:20 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings PS Several leading scholars of Buddhism contributed to a 2007 Paris volume on Sylvain LEVI (1863-1935): Etudes indiennes, histoire sociale, discussing his methods and results in critically approaching Indic Buddhist texts. Pe duminic�, 24 aprilie 2011, Eugen Ciurtin a scris: > Dear Bryan, > > Thank you for your kind reply. I would like to add the following to > other helpful suggestions: > [...] #3243 From: Bryan Levman Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 10:03 pm Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Eugen, Thanks very much for the references. Some I have and others I will look up - very helpful, Metta, Bryan --- On Sun, 4/24/11, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: From: Eugen Ciurtin Subject: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings To: "palistudy@yahoogroups.com" Received: Sunday, April 24, 2011, 1:11 PM Dear Bryan, Thank you for your kind reply. I would like to add the following to other helpful suggestions: [...] #3244 From: mahipal6@gmail.com Date: Sun Apr 24, 2011 11:25 pm Subject: Re: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Bryan, An excellent collection of text-critical comments on the Pali Dhammapada can be found in John Brough's edition of the Gaandhaarii Dharmapada. These comments were extremely useful to me when I collaborated with John Ross Carter to produce a book on the Dhammapada, where our own text-critical notes appear with an asterisk mark among the exhaustive endnotes . One spin-off of this effort was a study of the comment on kitavaa of Dhp 252. In the course of this study I found a new word made by the commentarial tradition: a feminine form kitavaa � entirely due to not understanding the grammar of the word in Dhp 252 (mistaking a nom. sg. for an instr. sg.) and its derivation from the ancient vocabulary of gambling. This study was subsequently published and recently uploaded to the internet. From Gambler to Camouflage: the strange semantic metamorphosis of Pali kitavaa: http://sjp.academia.edu/MahindaPalihawadana Mahinda On Apr 25, 2011 3:33am, Bryan Levman wrote: #3245 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 2:55 am Subject: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings On behalf of others of us who have also benefited from Bryan's significant question, and the generous responses that it has evoked - for both of which, many thanks! - could I please make a suggestion and plea? If respondents to such topics of more general and fundamental significance to the Pali Study Group in general offer to provide PDF and other kinds of files to individuals questioners, why not upload those files directly to the Pali Study Group files at http://tech.groups.yahoo.com/group/palistudy/files/ so that other members of the group can freely download and use them, too, now and in the future? It is easy to create a new folder, provide it with a suitable label, and upload the files to that folder. This does require logging in to Yahoo in order to gain access to the Pali Study Group homepage, but it only takes a moment to do that... Please, for the sake of all the members of the group, if you are offering materials to one member, why not make them available to all? Much more efficient than other members having to chase up every such offer individually in order to request copies, too. For my part, I have scanned O. H. de A. Wijesekera's _Syntax if the Cases in the Pāli Nikāyas_ and, as long as it does not infringe any copyright restrictions (i.e., given that I believe this work is currently out of print?) I intend to produce a PDF of this extremely useful and interesting work and upload it to the Pali Study Group files in the near future. (If anyone has any objections to my making such a PDF of Wijesekera's work available to this group, please let me know. But I can't imagine that Professor Wijesekera himself would have objected to his efforts being respectfully shared and benefiting others.) Hoping that this request will meet with a favourable response, and that some of the interesting texts mentioned in the recent discussion will become available in the Pali Study Group files in the near future. Best wishes, Khristos Nizamis 2011/4/24 Eugen Ciurtin > Dear Bryan, > > Thank you for your kind reply. I would like to add the following to > other helpful suggestions: > [...] #3246 From: Bryan Levman Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:02 am Subject: Re: Re: Textual criticism of Pali writings Dear Mahinda, Thanks very much for the references. I am of course familiar with Brough's work and I refer to it all the time; it is an excellent piece of scholarship, as is your book. Thanks for the article which I will study carefully, Metta, Bryan --- On Sun, 4/24/11, mahipal6@gmail.com wrote: From: mahipal6@gmail.com Subject: Re: Re: [palistudy] Textual criticism of Pali writings To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Sunday, April 24, 2011, 11:25 PM Dear Bryan, An excellent collection of text-critical comments on the Pali Dhammapada can be found in John Brough's edition of the Gaandhaarii Dharmapada. These comments were extremely useful to me when I collaborated with John Ross [...] #3247 From: Bryan Levman Date: Mon Apr 25, 2011 11:17 am Subject: Re: Fwd: Re: [Pali] sevitabba Dear Bhante Kumara, For one translation to be used in all contexts you would have to pick the most general of the terms, so I think "to be used" or "to be employed" would work the best. Lennart's suggestion of "to associate with" or perhaps "to resort to" is also good. I wonder if it makes more sense to change the translation of the word to suit the context, however, given the polyvocality of the word in Sanskrit/Pali? This would be an important question for Pali-English translation practice, Metta, Bryan --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Kumara Bhikkhu wrote: From: Kumara Bhikkhu Subject: Fwd: Re: [Pali] sevitabba To: "Bryan Levman" , "Lennart Lopin" Cc: Pali-owner@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, April 25, 2011, 9:09 AM Dear Bryan and Lennart For some strange reason, I postings suddenly don't reach the group. So, I'm sending this to you directly. I'm also cc-ing the owner to alert him so that he may sort it out. [...] #3248 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:24 am Subject: Re: Re: Fwd: Re: [Pali] sevitabba Dear Bhante, I think that Jim Anderson, the facilitator of the group list, is at his cottage away from town for a couple of weeks this month. He no longer has internet access at his cottage, and would not have received your messges yet. I expect he'll be back soon and he may be able to sort the problem out. So please be patient. With metta, Khristos Nizamis > --- On Mon, 4/25/11, Kumara Bhikkhu wrote: > > > For some strange reason, I postings suddenly don't reach the group. So, I'm > sending this to you directly. I'm also cc-ing the owner to alert him so that > he may sort it out. [...] #3249 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Tue Apr 26, 2011 2:34 am Subject: DPR Thai alternative Dear Friends, Just a correction that I've taken the Thai texts out of the DPR 2.0, after I realized it's going to almost double the size of the archive. Probably the best option will be to create a supplementary package that can be downloaded separately; I'm not going to finish the conversion in the near future anyway, but just to let it be known that the texts I did convert are no longer there. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3250 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Mon May 9, 2011 5:04 pm Subject: tapenti Dear Friends, I received another potential typo in the VRI tipitaka; probably I won't fix it, but here is the note: While studying the Dudubbhajaataka [322 - he actually means the commentary], one of my favorite ones, I noticed that the word tapenti occurs only once (hapax) in the Tipitaka. I think it might be a typo and it should be taapenti. What do you think? Can anyone confirm what the Burmese Tipitaka has? It is in the first paragraph of the commentary to J. 322: duddubhāyati bhaddanteti idaṃ satthā jetavane viharanto aññatitthiye ārabbha kathesi. titthiyā kira jetavanassa samīpe tasmiṃ tasmiṃ ṭhāne kaṇṭakāpassaye seyyaṃ kappenti, pañcātapaṃ *tapenti*, nānappakāraṃ micchātapaṃ caranti. atha sambahulā bhikkhū sāvatthiyaṃ piṇḍāya caritvā jetavanaṃ āgacchantā antarāmagge te disvā gantvā satthāraṃ upasaṅkamitvā “atthi nu kho, bhante, aññatitthiyānaṃ vatasamādāne sāro”ti pucchiṃsu. satthā “na, bhikkhave, tesaṃ vatasamādāne sāro vā viseso vā atthi, tañhi nighaṃsiyamānaṃ upaparikkhiyamānaṃ ukkārabhūmimaggasadisaṃ sasakassa duddubhasadisaṃ hotī”ti vatvā “duddubhasadisabhāvamassa mayaṃ na jānāma, kathetha no, bhante”ti tehi yācito atītaṃ āhari. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3251 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Mon May 9, 2011 5:47 pm Subject: Re: tapenti tapeti is no hapax legomenon, it appears also in the Dhammasangani-atthakatha and in the Mohavicchedani. See also M. Cone, Dictionary of Pali, Vol. 2 s.v. tapati, who has tapeti (with further references) and taapeti. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 09.05.2011 um 19:04 schrieb Noah Yuttadhammo: > Dear Friends, > > I received another potential typo in the VRI tipitaka; probably I won't > fix it, but here is the note: [...] #3252 From: Bryan Levman Date: Mon May 9, 2011 9:46 pm Subject: Re: tapenti Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo, Both tapati and upatapeti occur in the Maccha-Jātaka 34. They both look like valid historical forms from Skt. tapati or tāpayati = tāpeti, shown here with short -a- in order to preserve the correct "sloka metre of short-long-short-long in the second line (posterior pada). Metta, Bryan --- On Mon, 5/9/11, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: From: Noah Yuttadhammo Subject: [palistudy] tapenti To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Monday, May 9, 2011, 5:04 PM Dear Friends, I received another potential typo in the VRI tipitaka; probably I won't fix it, but here is the note: [...] #3253 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Tue May 31, 2011 4:53 pm Subject: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 1-2) Dear Members, This is a continuation of the Brahmajālasutta study project. The last related posting and ensuing discussion took place here in late February regarding a small passage at the beginning of Sv-pṭ (Dhammapāla). This posting turns to the ten verses with a translation attempt of the first two of these at the beginning of Ñāṇābhivaṃsa's abhinavaṭīkā (Sv-nṭ) on the Sumaṅgalavilāsinī which the author calls, as you will see in verse 10, the Sādhuvilāsinī (composed some two centuries ago in Burma). The verses give the reasons why this new ṭīkā was deemed necessary. Below is my translation and some brief notes for the first two verses followed by the text only of the remaining eight verses which ī will attempt to translate in future postings. But some of these verses are turning out to be more difficult than the first two. Ganthārambhakathā (lit. book-beginning-talk) Introduction. Yo desetvāna saddhammaṃ, gambhīraṃ duddasaṃ varaṃ; Dīghadassī ciraṃ kālaṃ, patiṭṭhāpesi sāsanaṃ. 1. 1. The long-visioned one, who has established the teachings for a long time, After having taught the true dhamma which is profound, hard-to-see, and excellent; [Note: 1) 'The far-sighted one' for 'dīghadassī' instead of 'the long-visioned one' is another possibility.] Vineyyajjhāsaye chekaṃ, mahāmatiṃ mahādayaṃ; Natvāna taṃ sasaddhammagaṇaṃ gāravabhājanaṃ. 2. 2. Together with the true dhamma and the sangha sharing in the reverence, Having bowed to him, the great sage, the great benefactor, clever in the disposition of those to be guided; [Note: 1) Having bowed to: the subject or agent of 'natvāna' is the 'I' in the verb 'ārabhissāmi' (ī will now begin) in pāda 9a.] Following are the remaining eight verses for your perusal: Saṅgītittayamāruḷhā, dīghāgamavarassa yā; Saṃvaṇṇanā yā ca tassā, vaṇṇanā sādhuvaṇṇitā. 3. Ācariyadhammapāla- ttherenevābhisaṅkhatā; Sammā nipuṇagambhīra-duddasatthappakāsanā. 4. Kāmañca sā tathābhūtā, paramparābhatā pana; Pāṭhato atthato cāpi, bahuppamādalekhanā. 5. Saṅkhepattā ca sotūhi, sammā ñātuṃ sudukkarā; Tasmā sabrahmacārīnaṃ, yācanaṃ samanussaraṃ. 6. Yo’nekasetanāgindo, rājā nānāraṭṭhissaro; Sāsanasodhane daḷhaṃ, sadā ussāhamānaso. 7. Taṃ nissāya ‘‘mamesopi, satthusāsanajotane; Appeva nāmupatthambho, bhaveyyā’’ti vicintayaṃ. 8.. [page 2] Vaṇṇanaṃ ārabhissāmi, sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ; Atthaṃ tamupanissāya, aññañcāpi yathārahaṃ. 9. Cakkābhivuḍḍhikāmānaṃ, dhīrānaṃ cittatosanaṃ; Sādhuvilāsiniṃ nāma, taṃ suṇātha samāhitāti. 10. Best wishes, Jim Anderson 31 May 2011 #3254 From: "Mark Allon" Date: Tue May 31, 2011 9:21 pm Subject: Pali course Dear Palistudy list, I have a student from Hong Kong who just completed 1st semester of Pali with me (we covered the first 18 Lessons of Warder in conjunction with Steve Collin's grammar). She is not able to stay in Australia but would like to continue her Pali studies. The summer school run by Richard Gombrich in Oxford would I imagine cover what she has already done: http://www.ocbs.org/index.php?option=com_content&view=article&id=156:pali-summer\ -school-2011&catid=33:academic-events&Itemid=129 Do any of you know of more advanced summer schools or options? She is quite a good student. Regards Mark Dr Mark Allon�| Chair & Senior Lecturer Dept. of Indian Subcontinental Studies & Buddhist Studies program Faculty of Arts & Social Sciences � THE UNIVERSITY OF SYDNEY Woolley Building A20 | The University of Sydney | NSW | 2006 T +61 2 93513891 �| F +61 2 93512319 �|� E mark.allon@sydney.edu.au | W http://sydney.edu.au/arts/indian/ #3255 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 1:35 am Subject: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear List-members, Here are verses 3 to 6 with a tentative translation and a few notes: Saṅgītittayamāruḷhā, dīghāgamavarassa yā; Saṃvaṇṇanā yā ca tassā, vaṇṇanā sādhuvaṇṇitā. 3. Whatever is that subcommentary, praised by the wise, on the commentary Mounted on the three (great) recitals of the excellent Digha Collection, [Notes: 1) I take ihe correlative of the first yā to be tassā in pāda 3c, and the correlative of the second yā to be sā in pāda 5a.] 2) The genitive relation of dīghāgamavarassa could just as well go with saṃvaṇṇanā. 3) The subcommentary is Sv-pṭ. 4) The commentary referred to is that of Buddhaghosa, not the earlier porāṇaṭṭhakathā recited at the three recitals.] Ācariyadhammapāla- ttherenevābhisaṅkhatā; Sammā nipuṇagambhīra-duddasatthappakāsanā. 4. Composed solely by the Acariya Dhammapala Thera, Properly the explanattion of the precise, profound, and hard-to-see meanings, Kāmañca sā tathābhūtā, paramparābhatā pana; Pāṭhato atthato cāpi, bahuppamādalekhanā. 5. And that admittedly has been so, but handed down in succession, Its writing has become badly-neglected for the readings, and for the meanings too, [Note: 1) "Kāmañca sā tathābhūtā" still doesn't make a lot of sense and has been the most troublesome phrase to translate so far.] Saṅkhepattā ca sotūhi, sammā ñātuṃ sudukkarā; Tasmā sabrahmacārīnaṃ, yācanaṃ samanussaraṃ. 6. And because of its condensed state, it is very difficult for learners to understand properly, Therefore, reflecting on the request of conscientious brahma-farers; [To be continued, comments and questions welcome] Best wishes, Jim Anderson 5 June 2011 #3256 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 8:04 am Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Jim, > > > Kāmañca sā tathābhūtā, paramparābhatā pana; > Pāṭhato atthato cāpi, bahuppamādalekhanā. 5. > > > Kāmañca here means "although", correlates with pana (see DOP kaama.m 2) > > tathaabhuuta which can be positive or negativ grasps some quality described earlier, and therefore refers to the qualities mentioned in the preceding verse. The meaning is that the commentary as it was written by Dhammapala was excellent, but has been distorted by transmission. Therefore It would translate: > "And although (this commentary) was of such a (excellent) quality (referring back to Sammā nipuṇagambhīra-duddasatthappakāsanā) it has been handed down is succession with its writing having become badly neglected ..." > > Best, Petra #3257 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Petra, Thanks for your help with verse 5 and for pointing out Cone's emtry. I got the idea of 'admittedly' for 'kāmaṃ' from MW's entry with 'granted, admitted that' as a possibility. I'm in agreement with you and I don't think I was all that far off in my translation. I had considered that 'tathābhūtā' could be referring to something said in the preceding pādas. The translations I submit are only tentative and most likely in a crude state requiring further refinement as there always seem to be room left for improvement. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 4:04 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Jim, > > > Kāmañca sā tathābhūtā, paramparābhatā pana; > Pāṭhato atthato cāpi, bahuppamādalekhanā. 5. > [...] #3258 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 5:12 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Jim, the meaning given in MW is to be found in Pali too, but it does not fit the case. By the way, as Ole told me, the meaning given in DOP was already given in the CPD, where I didn't look. I think it is great that you translate these verses. And naturally there is always room for improvement. But it is great that you undertake the task to translate the Sv-nt introductory verses. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 06.06.2011 um 18:00 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Dear Petra, > > Thanks for your help with verse 5 and for pointing out Cone's emtry. I got [...] #3259 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Jun 6, 2011 8:11 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Petra, Thanks for your encouragement. I will try to find the article on kāmaṃ in the online CPD. In addition to getting started on the abhinavaṭīkā, I also intend to continue on with the work done so far on Dhammapāla's ṭīkā in February and the Sumaṅgalavilāsinī will come in as well at some point. It's just a matter of syncrhronizing so that all three commentaries.can be worked on together as a whole and so there will be a lot of moving around between texts in the process. I'm very excited about the project and I think it is a great way to increase one's understaning and appreciation of the Pali tradition. Accodring to Buddhaghosa, the Visuddhimagga will also have to made use of to explana what Sv.does not. Kaccāyana can wait until the actual words in the sutta are taken up. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Monday, June 06, 2011 1:12 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Jim, the meaning given in MW is to be found in Pali too, but it does not fit the case. By the way, as Ole told me, the meaning given in DOP was already given in the CPD, where I didn't look. [...] #3260 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Thu Jun 9, 2011 10:04 am Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) Dear Jim, that sounds promising, Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 06.06.2011 um 22:11 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Dear Petra, > > Thanks for your encouragement. I will try to find the article on kāmaṃ in > the online CPD. > [...] #3261 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Thu Jun 9, 2011 4:11 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) From a syntactical standpoint, I believe the 10 introductory verses, as a whole, contains two complete sentences as follows: Sentence 1 (a complex one), consisting of verses 1 to 9 with verse 9 serving as the main clause with the verb 'ārabhissāmi" (ī will now begin). ṭhe main clause is preceded by 3 subordinate clauses as follows: 1) verses 1 & 2 with the absolutive "natvāna", 2) verses 3 to 6 with the pres. part. "samanussaraṃ" (nom. sg.), 3) verses 7 & 8 with the pres. part. "vicintayaṃ" (nom. sg). Sentence 2 (a simple one), consisting of verse 10 with the verb "suṇātha" (listen -- 2nd pers. pl., imperative). Does anyone happen to disagree with this analysis? The subordinate clauses themselves are much more difficult to analyse satisfactorily Jim #3262 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Thu Jun 16, 2011 7:18 am Subject: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) Sādhuvilāsinī, Introductory Verses 7-8: Yo’nekasetanāgindo, rājā nānāraṭṭhissaro; Sāsanasodhane daḷhaṃ, sadā ussāhamānaso. 7. 7. Who is lord of many white elephants, king, ruler of several kingdoms, Steadfast in purifying the Sāsana, always strong in mind; [Notes: 1) This was the Burmese king, Bodawpaya (1745-1819). See the Wikipedia article(http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Bodawpaya) for some biographical details.] Taṃ nissāya ‘‘mamesopi, satthusāsanajotane; Appeva nāmupatthambho, bhaveyyā’’ti vicintayaṃ. 8. 8. Relying on him, (and) thinking of: "In making the Teacher's Sāsana shine, perhaps he can be a support for me."; [Notes: 1) "-jotane" is not quite clear, Does it have the sense of making shine (caus.), and is it the king or the commentator who is doing the action? I'm thinking it's the king --- considering the affinity of "Sāsanasodhane" in the preceding verse. 2) ?upatthambho" = support (by way of encouragement?] Jim Anderson, 16 June 2011 #3263 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Thu Jun 16, 2011 2:09 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) Dear Jim, I think padas cd in verse 7 form one unit. That with respect to which the king's mind is determined/zealous is the purification of the sasana. ussaaha often describes the mental determination to do something, and it is of utmost importance in legal context whether one is sa-ussaaha or nirussaaha. The jotana in vs 8b might mean "explanation" (see DOP s.v.) "may he (i.e. the king) too be a support for me in explaining the Teacher's saasana". Whether upatthambho means support by way of encouragement or some more material support, is unclear. There is one passage, where upatthambho bhavissaami (MN-a IV 157) refers to the Buddha as a support for the bhikkhus. Best. Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 16.06.2011 um 09:18 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Sādhuvilāsinī, Introductory Verses 7-8: > > Yo’nekasetanāgindo, rājā nānāraṭṭhissaro; > Sāsanasodhane daḷhaṃ, sadā ussāhamānaso. 7. [...] #3264 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:11 pm Subject: culla-nirutti Dear Pali freinds, I am looking for accessible manuscripts of the Pali grammar attributed to Yamaka-mahaathera. It is quoted several times in Saddaniiti. There is also a va.n.nanaa on the grammar, the Ma.n juusaa that is quoted in Ruupasiddhi and identified in Ruup-.t. I have never been able to trace the va.n.nanaa. If you know whether it is still found in ms. collections, I would appreciate receiving the infomation. Thanks, Ole #3265 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Fri Jun 17, 2011 1:40 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) Dear Petra, << I think padas cd in verse 7 form one unit. That with respect to which the king's mind is determined/zealous is the purification of the sasana. ussaaha often describes the mental determination to do something, and it is of utmost importance in legal context whether one is sa-ussaaha or nirussaaha. >> You're probably right about pada 7cd being one (phrasal) unit. My taking it as two units would have been valid if daḷhaṃ (an adverb) had been daḷho. Is "That with respect to which..." your translation of "taṃ nissāya (8a) yo (7a)? << The jotana in vs 8b might mean "explanation" (see DOP s.v.) "may he (i.e. the king) too be a support for me in explaining the Teacher's saasana". Whether upatthambho means support by way of encouragement or some more material support, is unclear. There is one passage, where upatthambho bhavissaami (MN-a IV 157) refers to the Buddha as a support for the bhikkhus. >> ī don't yet have DOP II but will be ordering it as soon as I get my new credit card. PED has "illumination, explanation".My translation "making shine" is from taking jotana as causative like sodhana. The meaning will depend on who is doing the action. I can't see the king doing the explaining as I understand that the commentator had a special relationship to the king as his rājaguru (from Bode, if ī remember correctly). Problems with understanding and translating will come up frequently and I think it is enough to be at least aware of these problems without necessarily having to worry about resolving them anytime soon. Thanks for the Ps reference which helps. Best, Jim #3266 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Fri Jun 17, 2011 4:08 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) Dear Jim, > Is "That with respect to which..." your translation of "taṃ nissāya (8a) yo > (7a)? > No. My "with respect" renders the loc. in °saasane. ta.m nissaya is as you had it. > The meaning will depend on who is doing the action. I can't see the king doing the explaining > as I understand that the commentator had a special relationship to the king > as his rājaguru (from Bode, if ī remember correctly). > It is the commentator who explains the text, and who expresses his wish that the king might be a support for him (the commentator) while he (the commentator) is explaining the saasana, perhaps similar to the image of the previous verse that the king is zealous to purify the saasana (which also is some kind of support). Regarding jotana, it is used as a loc. at the end of compounds in several cases. It, furthermore, is used in one line with virocane and pakaasane (Pa.tis-a II 390), both used to express that someone illuminates a specific sense. And it is also in that sense in the Sadd (I 103,15: li.ngavisesajotane, "for explaining the distinction of gender"). See also Ud-a 23 upayogatthajotanattham " with the aim of illuminating this sense of the accusative"; in this sense it is also used in the Sv-ant itself (see I 174 explanation to tadatthajotanattham). Many examples could be added. Thus, I understand vss. 8-9 as: Relying on him (i.e. on the king), (and) thinking that he (i.e. the king) hopefully might be a support also for me (not only for those who purify the saasana) in explaining the Teacher's Sāsana (i.e. when I, the commentator explain the Saasana), I will begin the commentary; ... Best, Petra #3267 From: Chris Clark Date: Fri Jun 17, 2011 11:46 pm Subject: RE: culla-nirutti Dear Ole, You could try the Fragile Palm Leaves online database: http://echo.mpiwg-berlin.mpg.de/palmLeaves/frame.html?show=palmLeavesDB/search.h\ tml A quick search revealed the following: 1) Manuscript ID: 698, Title: Cūḷanirutti, Author: Yamaka Mahāthera, Date: 1884. 2) Manuscript ID: 2644, Title: Niruttimañjūsā, Date: 1863. No doubt there are other similar mss in the collection. Regards, Chris Clark ------------ Dear Pali freinds, I am looking for accessible manuscripts of the Pali grammar attributed to Yamaka-mahaathera. It is quoted several times in Saddaniiti. There is also a va.n.nanaa on the grammar, the Ma.n juusaa that is quoted in Ruupasiddhi and identified in Ruup-.t. I have never been able to trace the va.n.nanaa. If you know whether it is still found in ms. collections, I would appreciate receiving the infomation. Thanks, Ole #3268 From: Ma Vajira Date: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:58 am Subject: Re: culla-nirutti Ole, My teacher said that this text is extremely rare. If I have any new information about collections that may have it in Myanmar I will let you know. with metta, Ma Vajira On Fri, Jun 17, 2011 at 7:41 PM, Ole Holten Pind wrote: > Dear Pali freinds, > I am looking for accessible manuscripts of the Pali grammar attributed to Yamaka-mahaathera. It is quoted several times in Saddaniiti. There is also a va.n.nanaa on the grammar, the Ma.n juusaa that is quoted in Ruupasiddhi and identified in Ruup-.t. I have never been able to trace the va.n.nanaa. If you know whether it is still found in ms. collections, I would appreciate receiving the infomation. > Thanks, > Ole #3269 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sat Jun 18, 2011 12:42 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) Dear Petra, Thank-you for explaining your interpretation and giving a translation of padas 8 & 9a. In my earlier translation I left sāsana untranslated because I felt that "Teacher's Teachings" sounded odd in English. Ñāṇamoḷi uses Dispensation for this term and the Teacher's Dispensation does sound better. For '-jotane' I'm still undecided on its meaning (illuminating or explaining) and who is doing the action. 'esopi' (he too) comes immediately before the compound. The term 'sāsana' can include more than just scripture (pariyatti) and even border on what we might call the Buddha's religion (buddhasāsana). Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Friday, June 17, 2011 12:08 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) Dear Jim, > Is "That with respect to which..." your translation of "taṃ nissāya (8a) > yo > (7a)? > [...] #3270 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 6:39 am Subject: Thai Vinaya in DPR Dear Friends, I've just returned back from N. America, and today I finished adding the Thai Vinaya Pitaka to the DPR. It only works with the 2.0 version, which is split up into parts: http://pali.sirimangalo.org/digitalpalireader2.xpi - the program itself (required) http://pali.sirimangalo.org/DPRMyanmar.xpi - the VRI tipitaka (required) http://pali.sirimangalo.org/DPRThai.xpi - the Thai tipitaka (optional, right now only the Vinaya Pitaka) If you download and install all three of these, you should be able to navigate to a text in the vinaya, open it, then go to the little faded box in the top left corner of the text frame, which opens when you hover over it. Select the "T" from the M | T button, and it will switch to the Thai version. Let me know if you have any problems, I'll try to add the Sutta Pitaka next as time permits. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3271 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 2:13 pm Subject: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) Re: Sādhuvilāsinī, introductory verse 9. I haven't been able to properly understand the following verse: Vaṇṇanaṃ ārabhissāmi, sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ; Atthaṃ tamupanissāya, aññañcāpi yathārahaṃ. 9. There's no proplem with pada 9a (I will now begin the commentary) but it is problematic to understand the grammar and meaning of the rest of the verse (padas 9bcd). I first took 'sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ' to be: sa (=saha) + adhippāya + mahā + payaṃ. The main difficulty here is with 'paya' which has the meaning of "milk" or "water" and the great water or great milk doesn't make much sense. Some other possibilities I'm considering are: '-mahāpayaṃ' = mahā + āpayaṃ -- a great river (see MW under āpayā f.) -- ? "a great river of particular meanings". 'sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ' = sādhippāyam ahāpayaṃ. CPD has 'ahapaya' in the sense of not neglecting, not omitting. ??with the particular meanings, without omitting," Could '-mahāpayaṃ/ perhaps be the name of a text? Another problem is deciding on whether sāḍhippāyamahāpayaṃ' is an attribute of vaṇṇanaṃ or atthaṃ. My translation of padas 9cd is: "relying on that meaning and the other (one) too as is appropriate" although it's not clear what "that meaning" and "the other" is referring to. Perhaps 'taṃ' and 'aññaṃ' are referring to somthing else. Best wishes, Jim #3272 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Fri Jun 24, 2011 3:29 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) Dear Jim, sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ has to be separated into sādhippāyam ahāpayaṃ. ahāpayaṃ is nom.sg. of the particip present of the caus. hāpeti "to omit", thus it refers to the subject of the sentence. sa at the beginning of sādhippāyam probably stands for sva "own or original intention" I would translate: I will begin the commentary without destroying the own (i.e. original) intention (of the commented text), relying on that meaning (which the original text has) and (any) another meaning as is appropriate". I think that atthaṃ refers to the meaning implied in the text, the aññaṃ to meanings suggested by other earlier persons. The latter are only considered as it seemed appropriate to the author. For the sādhippāyam ahāpayaṃ compare also the introductory verses of the Abhidhammatthavibhāvinīṭīkā tasmā līnapadān' ettha sādhippāyam ahāpayaṃ vibhāvento samāsena racayissāmi vaṇṇanan ti This has been translated by Wijeratne/Gethin as "Therefore I will compose this commentary, explaining concisely the hidden meanings without destroying the (original) intention." Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 24.06.2011 um 16:13 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Re: Sādhuvilāsinī, introductory verse 9. > > I haven't been able to properly understand the following verse: [...] #3273 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Sat Jun 25, 2011 12:52 am Subject: Re: Thai Vinaya in DPR Dear Friends, Apologies to anyone who tried to download the Thai tipitaka as per my last email. It still hadn't been set up properly. Now it should be there. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On 06/24/2011 12:09 PM, Noah Yuttadhammo wrote: > Dear Friends, > > I've just returned back from N. America, and today I finished adding > the Thai Vinaya Pitaka to the DPR. It only works with the 2.0 > version, which is split up into parts: [...] #3274 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sat Jun 25, 2011 1:09 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) Dear Petra, Thank-you. I fully agree that /sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ' stands for two separate words, i.e., sādhippāyaṃ & ahāpayaṃ. Since 'ahāpayaṃ' is causative pres. part. act. and the simple verb 'jahati' takes one object (kamma), then 'ahāpayaṃ' must take two objects which I think are 'sādhippāyaṃ' and 'atthaṃ' (without causing the meaning to lose its original intention/intent). This leaves us with 'tamupanissāya aññañcāpi yathārahaṃ'. I'm wondering if this could be referring to Dhammapāla's ṭīkā (the other vaṇṇanā), hence, "and relying on that other (ṭīkā) too as is appropriate". (though I'm not sure if 'taṃ' can qualify 'aññaṃ') I would tentatively translate verse 9 as: I will begin the commentary, without causing the meaning to lose its original intent, And relying on that other (vaṇṇanā) too as is appropriate. From my reading of the abhinavaṭīkā so far, I get the impression that, despite the criticism in the verses, it still borrows heavily from and expands on Dhammapāla's ṭīkā. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Friday, June 24, 2011 11:29 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) Dear Jim, sādhippāyamahāpayaṃ has to be separated into sādhippāyam ahāpayaṃ. ahāpayaṃ is nom.sg. of the particip present of the caus. hāpeti "to omit", thus it refers to the subject of the sentence. sa at the beginning of sādhippāyam probably stands for sva "own or original intention" [...] #3275 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Fri Jul 1, 2011 10:30 am Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) Dear Jim, sorry for not answering earlier. I think you idea is good. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar [...] #3276 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Fri Jul 1, 2011 2:47 pm Subject: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Petre, Thank you! I'm now starting to take a look at verse 10, the last one, which begins with "Cakkābhivuḍḍhikāmānaṃ". CPD has "desiring for one's growth" for abhivuddhikāma, mfn. However, with cakka at the beginning of the compound, does it make sense to say: desirous of the Wheel's growth (also increase or prosperity) which I find odd. Can a wheel grow? I take it that cakka here refers to dhammacakka. Any idea on how best to translate abhivuḍḍhi? I've thought of strengthening as a possibility. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 6:30 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) Dear Jim, sorry for not answering earlier. I think you idea is good. Best, Petra [...] #3277 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Fri Jul 1, 2011 4:38 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, looking in the Sv-an.t I saw that abhivu.d.dhi is used in this text only once. But we have other instances, and it may be translated as prosperity, growth (so also in DOP). I think you are right in understanding cakka as dhammacakka. In the first volume the author offers several definitions of cakka, and most go to dhammacakkha. Thus it should be "for those longing for the prosperity of the dhammacakka. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 01.07.2011 um 16:47 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Dear Petre, > > Thank you! I'm now starting to take a look at verse 10, the last one, which > begins with "Cakkābhivuḍḍhikāmānaṃ". CPD has "desiring for one's growth" for [...] #3278 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Sat Jul 2, 2011 1:27 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Petra, Thank-you, 'prosperity' sounds good. I started thinking about what the term dhammacakka might mean and it became obvious that I don't know much. I had the idea that it represented the middle way or the noble eight-fold path but now I'm not so sure. I'd like to do a bit of investigating into how the Pali commentators define the term. I put "dhammacakkanti" into the CSCD 3 search engine which resulted in showing that the string occurs 35 times in 18 books. I'll take a look at the instances and report back later with a summary. Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Friday, July 01, 2011 12:38 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, looking in the Sv-an.t I saw that abhivu.d.dhi is used in this text only once. But we have other instances, and it may be translated as prosperity, growth (so also in DOP). I think you are right in understanding cakka as dhammacakka. In the first volume the author offers several definitions of cakka, and most go to dhammacakkha. Thus it should be "for those longing for the prosperity of the dhammacakka. Best, Petra #3279 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Sat Jul 2, 2011 4:00 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, since you said that you don't have the DOP, here the meanings given by M. Cone for dhammacakka: 1. (i) the wheel or discus of dhamma's authority (esp. as initiated by the Buddha's first teaching); the sway of dhamma; (ii) a representation of this; 2, a wheel that is dhamma; 3. the four good practices or attainments or means. The author of Sv-ant gives three definitions (I 36), and with the last quotes the Patis-a II 159 passage. "Wheel of the True Idea: in what sense Wheel of the True Idea? He sets rolling the True Idea and(that itself is) the Wheel, thus it is the Wheel of the True Idea. He sets rolling the Wheel and the Ture Idea ..." Perhaps it will be best to look how he uses the word in the Sv-ant, because this certainly will also be the meaning he intends in his introductory verse. I am curious about what you will find out, Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-P�lz Wilhelm-K�lz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 02.07.2011 um 15:27 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Dear Petra, > > Thank-you, 'prosperity' sounds good. I started thinking about what the term > dhammacakka might mean and it became obvious that I don't know much. I had > the idea that it represented the middle way or the noble eight-fold path but > now I'm not so sure. I'd like to do a bit of investigating into how the Pali > commentators define the term. I put "dhammacakkanti" into the CSCD 3 search > engine which resulted in showing that the string occurs 35 times in 18 > books. I'll take a look at the instances and report back later with a > summary. > > Jim [...] #3280 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Jul 4, 2011 11:28 am Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dea Petra, Thanks for the meanings from Cone's DOP II (I have Vol. I.) and for drawing attention to the Sv-nṭ I 36 passage along with a translation of its Paṭis II 159 quote. It appears that the chapter on Dhammacakkakathā in Paṭis offers the most detailed explanation of the term and its commentary is helpful too. Because the term can be interpreted in so many ways, it could be left untranslated until the meaning in the context of the verse becomes cleaerr. From my reading so far.I can see the compound resolved into 2 types of kammadhāraya, 2 types of tappurisa, and 1 dvanda not to meantion the meanings of dhamma and cakka. The idea of dhammacakka being a weapon for destroying the kilesas is new to me--cakka here would correspond to Cone's discus. For "cakkābhivuḍḍhikāmānaṃ" in our verse, I'm thinking of "cakka" being in the locative case: (the ommentary) pleasing to the minds of the wise desiring'longing for growth or propsperity (theirs and others) nnder the Dhamma Wheel (Cakkābhivuḍḍhikāmānaṃ, dhīrānaṃ cittatosanaṃ; --padas 10ab) I'll continue to look at Sv-nt I 36 and Paṭis īī 159 with its commentary. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Saturday, July 02, 2011 12:00 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, since you said that you don't have the DOP, here the meanings given by M. Cone for dhammacakka: 1. (i) the wheel or discus of dhamma's authority (esp. as initiated by the Buddha's first teaching); the sway of dhamma; (ii) a representation of this; 2, a wheel that is dhamma; 3. the four good practices or attainments or means. [...] #3281 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Mon Jul 4, 2011 12:25 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, loc.? Do you know of examples? I think cakka is genitiv to abhivu.d.dhi "growth of cakka" (whatever might be the exact meaning of cakka here). I agree with you that it needs detailed investigation. Curious to learn about your results. Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 04.07.2011 um 13:28 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Dea Petra, > > Thanks for the meanings from Cone's DOP II (I have Vol. I.) and for drawing > attention to the Sv-nṭ I 36 passage along with a translation of its Paṭis II > 159 quote. [...] #3282 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Jul 4, 2011 11:25 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Petra, I know of two examples of the sattamītappurisa type in Kaccāyana's grammar: rūpe saññā : rūpasaññā & saṃsāre dukkhaṃ : saṃsāradukkhaṃ (Kc 327 (Be)). I'm not sure if these are the type you have in mind. I'm looking at "cakkābhivuḍḍhi-" as similar: cakke abhivuḍḍhi with cakka being the cause (nimitta) of the increase---growth on account of the cakka. I started out thinking of the genitive relation of cakka but I have trouble agreeing with the notion of growth of the cakka. Abh 781-2 gives 14 meanings of cakka. The explanation of dhammacakka at Sv-nt I 36 is from Sv-pt I 24. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "petra kieffer-Pülz" To: Sent: Monday, July 04, 2011 8:25 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, loc.? Do you know of examples? I think cakka is genitiv to abhivu.d.dhi "growth of cakka" (whatever might be the exact meaning of cakka here). I agree with you that it needs detailed investigation. Curious to learn about your results. Petra **************************************** [...] #3283 From: petra kieffer-P�lz Date: Tue Jul 5, 2011 11:12 am Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, probably your investigation in the meaning of cakka, dhammacakka will bring the solution. Best, Petra **************************************** Dr. Petra Kieffer-Pülz Wilhelm-Külz-Strasse 2 99423 Weimar Tel. 03643/ 770 447 kiepue@t-online.de (priv.) petra.kieffer-puelz@adwmainz.de www.pali.adwmainz.de Am 05.07.2011 um 01:25 schrieb Jim Anderson: > Dear Petra, > > I know of two examples of the sattamītappurisa type in Kaccāyana's grammar: > rūpe saññā : rūpasaññā & saṃsāre dukkhaṃ : saṃsāradukkhaṃ (Kc 327 (Be)). I'm [...] #3284 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Tue Jul 5, 2011 2:34 pm Subject: Re: Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Petra, It is very hard to know exactly what the author meant by "cakka" in pāda 10a and we may never know. I have come up with another interpretation (albeit a modern one) that I find acceptable. This is to take "cakka" in the sense of āṇā (authority). Here is verse 10 with a translation: Cakkābhivuḍḍhikāmānaṃ, dhīrānaṃ cittatosanaṃ; Sādhuvilāsiniṃ nāma, taṃ suṇātha samāhitāti. 10. 10. Listen. concentrated. to this (commentary) called the Sādhuvilāsinī; Pleasing to the minds of the wise who desire an increase in the (commentarial) authority. The wise (dhirānaṃ) here could very well be the good brahmafarers who requested the author produce such a commentary. I would translate the title Sādhuvilāsinī as Splendour of the Wise. Best, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: petra kieffer-Pülz To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Sent: Tuesday, July 05, 2011 7:12 AM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) Dear Jim, probably your investigation in the meaning of cakka, dhammacakka will bring the solution. Best, Petra **************************************** #3285 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Sat Jul 9, 2011 3:59 pm Subject: atypical vitakka in Mil 116? Dear Professors and Dear List-members, In *Mil* 116, in an eightfold apophatic listing of Vessantara's qualities, Nagasena says he is without *vitakka*, and the occurrence is clearly distinct from the more typical discussion in e.g. *Mil* 63. As no mention of *vicara* is made here, the alternatives are perhaps a bit less strict than is the case with the famous meditational pairing, most helpfully overviewed by Prof Cousins in *IIJ* 1992 = FS 1 K.R. Norman. Despite this guidance, I don't know how to render *vitakka* in this very passage. The text reads *na vitakkavasena* (*pavattati*). Checking the translations, we found rather unsatisfactorily renderings: 'disputation' in Rhys Davids (1890: 1.173, 'his heart not turned in the way of' etc.) and 'raisonnement' in Nolot (1995: 111; 'la pens�e n'�tait mue ni par etc.'), but 'je reste sur ma faim' as there are no further comments. A similar situation is met in the modern *Mil-a* edited by Prof Deshpande, in *DOP* & in *CPD* (if I am not mistaken; I was able to check neither Prof Jaini's *tika*, nor Dr Ferreiro-Jardim's 2006 unpublished Australian paper). Horner (1969: 1.162 * cum* n. 2) has 'way of thought', rightfully adding 'a very difficult word to translate' (for 'not that it [scil. the mind] proceeded'). Paribok's Russian *Mil* and Osier's recent French *Vess* translations offer, again, no clue. Note *vitakka* described with *pavattati* in Cousins 1992: 157 n. 82. This seems to be a little bit puzzling: is this to be taken *prima facie* as e.g. 'initial thought', with Horner and Prof Gethin's thesis (1992/2001 passim)? Or perhaps the most context-sensitive translation is still the first English one, however far from a proper substantiation (perhaps *citta*cannot be taken here in the sense of *hadaya,* as in many a non-Buddhist Indian setting; see Sugunasiri, *PhEW*1995: 409-430), and looking like a wild guess? Would you be so kind as to offer an alternative hint for translation? Please excuse the lack of diacritics. with metta Eugen -- Dr E. Ciurtin Secretary of the Romanian Association for the History of Religions http://ihr-acad.academia.edu/EugenCiurtin Publications Officer of the European Association for the Study of Religions www.easr.eu Lecturer & Secretary of the Scientific Council Institute for the History of Religions, Romanian Academy Calea 13 Septembrie no. 13 sect. 5, Bucharest 050711 Phone: +40 733 951 953 or +40 721 877 659 www.ihr-acad.ro #3286 From: "L.S. Cousins" Date: Sat Jul 9, 2011 6:13 pm Subject: Re: atypical vitakka in Mil 116? Here it is part of a set of eight things. Each of them is something under whose influence Vessantara's mind does not operate. They are contrasted with generosity. His mind does operate under the influence of generosity. Since the eight things include greed, hate, delusion, pride and views, each of which is a character-type, I assume that vitakka here is being used in the same way as when it is a character-type: a propensity to think about things too much in a disordered way. One might also think of sensual, hostile and cruel thoughts. Lance Cousins On 09/07/2011 16:59, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: > In *Mil* 116, in an eightfold apophatic listing of Vessantara's qualities, > Nagasena says he is without *vitakka*, and the occurrence is clearly > distinct from the more typical discussion in e.g. *Mil* 63. As no mention of > *vicara* is made here, the alternatives are perhaps a bit less strict than > is the case with the famous meditational pairing, most helpfully overviewed > by Prof Cousins in *IIJ* 1992 = FS 1 K.R. Norman. Despite this guidance, I > don't know how to render *vitakka* in this very passage. [...] #3287 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Sat Jul 9, 2011 6:36 pm Subject: Re: atypical vitakka in Mil 116? Dear Professor Cousins, I thank you so much for your comments and suggestion, precious indeed. with every good wish EC 2011/7/9 L.S. Cousins > ** > > > Here it is part of a set of eight things. Each of them is something > under whose influence Vessantara's mind does not operate. They are > contrasted with generosity. His mind does operate under the influence of > generosity. Since the eight things include greed, hate, delusion, pride > and views, each of which is a character-type, I assume that vitakka here > is being used in the same way as when it is a character-type: a > propensity to think about things too much in a disordered way. One might > also think of sensual, hostile and cruel thoughts. > > Lance Cousins [...] #3288 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Tue Jul 12, 2011 4:21 pm Subject: Sayadaw Ashin Thitzana Dear List-members, In a message dated August 28 of last year I wrote in a query about the title "Sayadaw" that the Sayadaw Ashin Thitzana was a Tipitakadhara. Well, I discovered today that this is not correct and it should be Dvipitakdahara. I got the information from a short biography (quitte impressive!) about him on the net at the following url: http://incovar.blogspot.com/2009/08/dhamma-talk-by-sayadaw-u-thitzana-4.html I first met him in 1982 here in Ontario, also in 2008 outside of Montreal, and again last summer at my cottage. There's a possibility he may be teaching at the Dharma Centre of Canada later this year. The centre was founded by a Cnadain, Ananda Bodhi Bhikkhu (later known as Namgyal Rinpoche) in the 60s. His teacher was the late Saydaw U Thilawuntha. U Thitzana had accompanied this Sayadaw to the centre in 1982 where I met them both. Best wishes, Jim #3289 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Fri Jul 15, 2011 7:32 pm Subject: DPR Custom Search Dear Friends, Just a heads up for people using the DPR, as per my blog post: DPR 2.0 is up to Beta 28 and counting. This beta release bears mentioning, because it adds a feature that I think will really be found useful for keen Pali students: partial book searches. The entire search tab has been revamped, and it’s still a bit messy, but hopefully I can clean it up as time goes on. For now, the choices have been reduced to five: Multiple Sets, Books in Set, Single Book, and Partial Book. This means choosing M,A,T has to be done manually for each type, but I think makes the overall search process more straightforward. Choosing the “Partial Book” option brings up the familiar hierarchy of vaggas, suttas, sections, subsections, etc. but this time on the search tab. Selecting one of the hierarchies (a radio button) means your search is limited to that level in the hierarchy. So, say you want to search the Mahaparinibbaana Sutta. You would select “Partial Book”, then “Diigha” and “Muula”, “DN 2″, “3. mahaaprinibbaanasutta.m”. Or, if you just want to search the yamakasaalaa section, for whatever reason, switch to that level in the hierarchy and select that section from the dropdown. This is really the ultimate in search flexibility, and a feature that was requested by two seperate monks, so here it is. Okay, so the DPR search itself won’t enlighten you, but the new changes might make you think it was enlightened beings who thought it up. All credit for the idea goes to the venerables who requested it, Ven. Nyanatusita and Ven Khemaratana. Also in this release, I’ve fixed the ATT and TIK and TITLE dictionary look ups… I didn’t even realize I’d broken them until today. Sorry about that… please do let me know if you find anything that doesn’t work. May all be well, Yuttadhammo P.S. The Thai Tipitaka has been extended to include the DN, MN, and half of the AN. The Vinaya is all there already, as mentioned earlier. #3290 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Tue Jul 26, 2011 6:41 am Subject: Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context Dear Professors and Dear List-Members, In the 2008 edition of the *Anavataptagāthā* by Prof Richard Salomon, the Gāndhārī word analogous to *caturangula* / *caturaṅgula* is *caduraghulu* ‘four fingers (long/width)’, present in contexts rather similar in several canonical works in Pali or Sanskrit (as well as Chinese and Tibetan). As Prof Oskar von Hinüber writes in his review (*JAOS* 130.1, pp. 90-94, published December 2010, here 93; please excuse the very rough copy below): […] the same recitation of Srona preserves one of the very few references to the old Indian concept that hair grows on the bottoms of the feet of particularly tender people: caduraghulu ya me lumu/jadu padatale rmidu, vs. 21 (p. 214) "And soft hair, four fingers long, grew on the sole(s) of (my) feet" (Salomon): compare Sono Koliviso ... sukhumalo hoti, tassa padatalesu lomani jatani, Vin I 179,5 (cf. 182,2; 185,14) and hesta padatalabhya ca romabhuc caturangul(i), SHT *sht* - server-parsed HTML IV p. 309 (Kat. Nr. 187 = K 1081) = Bechert, Bruchstucke, p. 125, in a Srona-Avadana, which is compressed into four verses. The same idea concerning the feet of extremely tender people is also found in the Jaiminiya Brahmana: cf. Willem B. Bollee, "Folklore on the Foot in Pre-modern India," Indologica Taurinensia 34 (2008): 39-145, esp. nn. 24 and 477: lomasau hasya adhastat pddav asatuh, JB II 270. It is of course very hard to supplement Prof von Hinüber’s enlightening references to the ‘hair of the soles’ (W. Caland: “this quality [...] is not noted anywhere else”, cited in W. B. Bollée 2008 p. 104 n. 477; for Sk/Tib * Anavataptagāthā*, see Marcel Hofinger ed. 1954/1982, p. 208). It is I assume also difficult to understand why such people are seen as belonging to a *m** ṛdu*-category (no Āyurvedic references found so far), as there are so many restrictions and taboos as regards hair in Buddhist texts, also one identification as ‘Evil’ in immediate JB II 269. One possible explanation, I would suggest, is to consider the connection of several different Indic expressions and ideas here conflated, more typically: 1. soles’ hair (even if strongly contradicting the *mahāpuruṣalakṣaṇa*); 2. soles’ four fingers distance from earth; 3. Earth’s capacity (especially as flat, levelled earth - one locus classicus being *Lv* 57 Vaidya), to rise and subside under specific circumstances no more and no less than four fingers, in an equally rare instance of ‘seismic waves’, in dozen of passages associated in fact with the manifestation of earthquakes; 4. some *āyurveda* and *kāmaśāstra*interdiction to directly touch the earth; 5. other occurrences of ‘four fingers breadth’ related to earth: e.g. special herbs as in *Vess* 534 or special rice as in the *Supriyāvadāna*. As among the list-members are not only several masters of Pali but at least one, Professor Allon, of Gāndhārī also, I would like to ask: - how to explain the presence of two forms, in two different Gāndhārī contexts and collections, for *caturangula*, as Bajaur Fragment 2, part 5, line (I. Strauch 2008 fig. 36) has a rather legible (checking with some tables of flawless Dr Glass) –*gu*- instead of –*ghu*-. - would you consider this a very genuine stock-expression, as it is now attested by the oldest MSS? Are there some solutions for detecting its origin and explain their varieties? I would also like to sum up (from a paper still in progress) the analogous handling of ‘four fingers’: *caturangula* is the strict measure of hair (from a special foot); the strict measure of rice foliage (from a special earth, in *Divy* 120); the strict measure of bodily size (of a special individual: Nanda’s tallness [only] four fingers less than the Buddha, seen as a most positive fact; including in some Central Asian fragments); the strict measure of the Buddha’s opening of his robe (MN I 233,36); the strict measure of ‘levitation’ above the earth (again, of the most unique airborne beings); the strict measure of earth’s aptitude — reputedly, *mah**ā**pṛthiv **ī* is from early narratives to later Abhidharma seen as *acal**ā* — to become ‘elastic’. It seems these are by no means the single types of a rather autonomous, ‘floating’ and ‘[quite systematically] intruding’ expression. Do you perhaps know a special study already devoted to this topic which escaped my attention? Even if far away from Gandhāra, I am pleased to add this ‘survived’ up to Handel’s *Messiah*, in an opening aria just titled ‘Ev’ry valley should be exalted’, which is a rephrase by his Brit benefactor Jennens of similar passages from Isaiah and Luke, but is present as well in different Christian apocryphal gospels, in the French carol ‘Baissez-vous, montagnes; plaines, haussez-vous’, etc. Thanking you in advance for your observations, With kind regards, E. Ciurtin #3291 From: Bryan Levman Date: Tue Jul 26, 2011 4:33 pm Subject: Re: Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context Dear Eugene >- how to explain the presence of two forms, in two different >Gāndhārī contexts and collections, for *catura”ngula*, [caduraghulu and caduragulu] as Bajaur Fragment 2, >part 5, line (I. Strauch 2008 fig. 36) has a rather legible (checking with >some tables of flawless Dr Glass) –*gu*- instead of –*ghu*-. The “normal” way or writing Skt. catura”ngula in Gaandhaarii would be caduraǵula/u/o (g with an accent aigu over the letter -g-) if they are following the Dhammapada orthography as described by Brough in section 4, 31, 46 of his Gaandhaarii Dharmapada. Here ǵ represents the velar nasal ŋ, so the actual spelling of the word is cadura"ngulu. Have you checked the original script to see if there is a presence of an additional “hook” as Brough describes in section #4? This hook could also represent –gh- see below. However there are other Gaandhaari orthographies and following Fussman the nasal may just not have been written as these were often not notated in Gaandhaari and presumably the writer/reader, because the syllable was accented/heavy (“lourde”) and open would automatically read it as long and nasalized, even though not written. See Fussman page 478-479 (reference below): “Si la syllabe lourde est ouverte, sa lourdeur est immédiatiement marquée (et parfois etymologiquement causée) par sa nasalisation”, even thought the nasalization was not notated. And of course this syllable is etymologically nasalized (a"ngula). So presumably just writing caduragula/u/o in some Gaandhaari orthographies would equal cadura"ngula/u/o. As for the lenition of –t- > -d-, this is very common in Gaandhaari in almost all cases. One sees it throughout the Gaandhaarii Dhammapada. The nominative singular masculine is extremely variable in Gaandhaarii (Brough, Section 75) and per Fussman (page 473): "The timbre of final vowels was hardly differentiated from about the 1st century BC onwards." As for the presence of an aspirate –gh- instead of the expected –g-. This is “not rare” as Geiger points out in section 62.1 of his grammar, but he offers no explanation of why this might be the case. My guess is that many of the speaker of Middle Indic were bilingual Dravidian and Dravidian has no aspirates, so there would likely be a confusion, but this is just a guess. Dravidian also has no distinction between voiced and unvoiced stops which might be a partial explanation for the lention of –t- > -d- mentioned above. One other point: if you have the ǵ with accent aigu in the original script (i.e. with a hook on the letter) this could also represent –gh- (as it does in the Niya documents, see Brough section #4) although it represents the velar nasal ŋ in the Gaandhaari Dhp; this would also account for the graphic confusion of –g- and –gh-. Hope this helps, Metta, Bryan John Brough, The Gāndhārī Dharmapada (London: Oxford University Press, 1962). G. Fussman, "Gāndhārī écrite, Gāndhārī parlée", in C. Caillat, ed., Dialectes dans les littératures indo-aryennes (Paris, 1989): 433-501. Wilhelm Geiger, A Pāli Grammar. translated into English by Batakrishna Bhosh, revised and edited by K. R. Norman (Oxford: The Pali Text Society, 2005). --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: From: Eugen Ciurtin Subject: [palistudy] Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 6:41 AM Dear Professors and Dear List-Members, In the 2008 edition of the *Anavataptagāthā* by Prof Richard Salomon, the Gāndhārī word analogous to *caturangula* / *caturaṅgula* is [...] #3292 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Tue Jul 26, 2011 7:57 pm Subject: Re: Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context Dear Bryan, Thank you so much for your informative answer. I also assumed *t* > *d*indeed is hopefully trouble-free, origin left aside. I missed to check again the volume edited by late Prof Caillat, where Prof von Hinüber's contribution (now also in his KS), has very valuable information on texts akin to the cited passage. Your Dravidian guess (for which I have no competence) looks intriguing. However, up to now only *caduraghulu* is registered in *A Dictionary of Gandhari*. My intention as to the form was to see if there are some (even minor) consequences of this (regional/scribal etc.), not only with the material available in Khotan Dharmapada, but especially with the treasures unearthed and deciphered after 1994/1995. My colleague Vincent Tournier (EPHE, Paris) also informs me about almost the same kind of (so frequent) irregularities. Thanks again, it indeed helps, with metta Eugen 2011/7/26 Bryan Levman > ** > > > > > Dear Eugene > > > > >- how to explain the presence of two forms, in two > different > > >Gāndhārī contexts and collections, for *catura”ngula*, [caduraghulu and > caduragulu] as Bajaur Fragment 2, [...] #3293 From: Bryan Levman Date: Tue Jul 26, 2011 9:36 pm Subject: Re: Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context Daer Eugen, You're welcome. I would check the original manuscript and see what the letter (-g- or -gh- or ǵ accent aigu) actually looks like as it may simply be an graphic peculiarity leading to these different transcriptions, Metta, Bryan --- On Tue, 7/26/11, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: From: Eugen Ciurtin Subject: Re: [palistudy] Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com Received: Tuesday, July 26, 2011, 7:57 PM Dear Bryan, Thank you so much for your informative answer. I also assumed *t* > *d*indeed is hopefully trouble-free, origin left aside. I missed to [...] #3294 From: "Mark Allon" Date: Fri Jul 29, 2011 8:07 am Subject: RE: Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context Dear Eugen, -gh- for original OIA/MIA -g- is merely an orthographic peculiarity of the scribe of this manuscript. Although alternation between aspirate and non-aspirate forms is not uncommon in Gandhari, in this case the scribe converted all -g- forms in his exemplar to -gh-. The same scribe also wrote the following manuscripts: Allon. M. 2001. Three Gāndhārī Ekottarikāgama-Type Sūtras: British Library Kharoṣṭhī Fragments 12 and 14. Gandhāran Buddhist Texts 2. Seattle: University of Washington Press. Lenz, Timothy [J.] 2003. A New Version of the Gāndhārī Dharmapada and a Collection of Previous-Birth Stories: British Library Kharoṣṭhī Fragments 16 + 25. Gandhāran Buddhist Texts 3. Seattle: University of Washington Press. Discussion of -gh- is found in all three publications. The variation of the final vowel: Bajaur *caturangula*, AG-G *caduraghulu* is typical for Gandhari. As noted by Fussman long ago, final vowel is weak and counts for nothing: for example, nom. sg. m. forms are -a, -u, -o, -e. Hope this helps with the variant forms, at least. Best wishes Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: palistudy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:palistudy@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Eugen Ciurtin > Sent: Tuesday, 26 July 2011 4:42 PM > To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [palistudy] Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context > > Dear Professors and Dear List-Members, > > > > In the 2008 edition of the *Anavataptagāthā* by Prof Richard Salomon, > the > Gāndhārī word analogous to *caturangula* / *caturaṅgula* is > *caduraghulu*‘four fingers (long/width)’, present in contexts rather > similar in several > canonical works in Pali or Sanskrit (as well as Chinese and Tibetan). > As > Prof Oskar von Hinüber writes in his review (*JAOS* 130.1, pp. 90-94, > published December 2010, here 93; please excuse the very rough copy > below): [...] #3295 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Sat Jul 30, 2011 12:39 pm Subject: Re: Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context Dear Professor Allon, Thank you so much for your comments, which settle indeed one of my little points. I am pleased to report Vincent Tournier's answer was quite near to yours (however, Vincent and I not having alas your volumes at hand). with best wishes Eugen 2011/7/29 Mark Allon > ** > > > Dear Eugen, > > -gh- for original OIA/MIA -g- is merely an orthographic peculiarity of the > scribe of this manuscript. Although alternation between aspirate and > non-aspirate forms is not uncommon in Gandhari, in this case the scribe > converted all -g- forms in his exemplar to -gh-. The same scribe also wrote > the following manuscripts: [...] #3296 From: Khristos Nizamis Date: Tue Aug 16, 2011 1:18 am Subject: FWD: Urgent appeal for Water Relief for Bodhirukaramaya Vihara Dear Pali friends, please forgive my posting this message to the Pali Study Group mailing list, but I was not sure how else to be of further help to these people in this situation. The matter does seem relevant, however, to our shared interests and concerns. With metta, Khristos Nizamis Forwarded message: *This monastery, which has become a haven for elderly monks, is threatened with loss of its sole water supply. It needs your help. * With metta, Ken and Visakha Kawasaki Buddhist Relief Mission Please visit our websites: Buddhist Relief Mission Sri Lanka Reports: < www.brelief.org/reports> *Urgent Appeal for Water Relief* Bodhirukaramaya Vihara Kurunegala Bodhirukaramaya is a small monastery near Kurunegala. Several years ago, the abbot, Venerable Amilasiri, offered hospitality to an elderly monk who had no place else to stay. As word spread, the number gradually grew. Now Bodhirukaramya is a haven for 45 elderly monks. There are also about 15 novices living at Bodhirukaramaya and studying at a nearby pirivena (Bhikkhu Training Centre). The monastery is located in an isolated area, about 20 kilometers from the city. In this area, there is no public source for water. Tests were conducted, and it was learned that drilling a well on the monastery land is not feasible since the water there is contaminated by dangerous minerals. In the past, the monastery made an agreementwith the owner of an adjacent lot, where there is a good well, for water to be piped to a storage tank. Unfortunately, that land is now for sale. The prospective buyer refuses to continue the current agreement with Bodhirukaramaya. If he obtains the land, the monastery will be left without any water. Furthermore, the buyer intends to create a compound which would be totally incompatible with a Buddhist monastery. For these two reasons, Bodhirukaramaya is seriously threatened. Fortunately, the owner of this plot of land has agreed to sell the three acres to the monastery at a reduced price, if the deal can be closed before September 10, 2011. Therefore, it is urgent that Bodhirukaramaya raise 1,200,000 rupees immediately. (Otherwise expressed, that is twelve lakhs, or eleven thousand US dollars.) All donations, large or small, are welcome. Buddhist Relief Mission will receipt all contributions. In Sri Lanka, donations can be made via Commercial Bank Account Number: 8254001210 Account Name: Kenneth Kawasaki From other countries, donations can be made via PayPal from our website: www.brelief.org Or go directly to: http://www.brelief.org/help.htm You can also send a check or money order in US dollars, Pay to Buddhist Relief Mission, to: Smith Barney , P.O. Box 320590, Flint, MI 48532-0011, U.S.A. Whichever way you choose, please inform us of your donation by email, telephone, or letter. Buddhist Relief Mission www.brelief.org buddhist@brelief.org – 077-964-9292 – 75/1 Anniwatte Road, Kandy, Sri Lanka With metta, Ken and Visakha Kawasaki Buddhist Relief Mission #3297 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Thu Sep 22, 2011 4:59 am Subject: VRI Tipitaka Typos Dear Friends, Just going through my VRI-based tipitaka texts, finding more and more typos. Quite sad that with all the impressive technology and rigorous checking they boast about, they couldn't even find errors like "atthtthi". Simple regex queries bring up many of these errors. One that I'm looking at right now is: Abhi Paṭṭh 2, 13. parittārammaṇattikaṃ, 7. pañhāvāro, 1. paccayānulomaṃ, 1. vibhaṅgavāro, ārammaṇapaccayo, para. 3 ➤ top 15. mahaggatārammaṇo dhammo mahaggatārammaṇassa dhammassa ārammaṇapaccayena paccayo — viññāṇañcāyatanaṃ paccavekkhati, nevasaññānāsaññāyatanaṃ paccavekkhati, mahaggatārammaṇaṃ iddhividhañāṇaṃ paccavekkhati, *cetopariyañāṇaṃṭhcetopariyañāṇaṃ* . pe . pubbenivāsānussatiñāṇaṃ . pe . yathākammūpagañāṇaṃ . pe . anāgataṃsañāṇaṃ paccavekkhati. mahaggatārammaṇe mahaggate khandhe aniccato . pe . vipassati, assādeti abhinandati, taṃ ārabbha mahaggatārammaṇo rāgo uppajjati . pe . domanassaṃ uppajjati. cetopariyañāṇena mahaggatārammaṇamahaggatacittasamaṅgissa cittaṃ jānāti. mahaggatārammaṇā mahaggatā khandhā cetopariyañāṇassa, pubbenivāsānussatiñāṇassa, yathākammūpagañāṇassa, anāgataṃsañāṇassa, āvajjanāya ārammaṇapaccayena paccayo. (1) Can anyone tell me from another version what "cetopariyañāṇaṃṭhcetopariyañāṇaṃ" should be? I'm guessing just "cetopariyañāṇaṃ", but would like confirmation. Thanks in advance :) Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3298 From: Chris Clark Date: Thu Sep 22, 2011 6:02 am Subject: RE: VRI Tipitaka Typos Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, cetopariyañāṇaṃ is the reading in the "World Tipitaka" online text: http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/tipitaka/37P1/14/14.7/14.7.1/14.7.1.1/Arammana Regards, Chris -------------- Dear Friends, Just going through my VRI-based tipitaka texts, finding more and more typos. Quite sad that with all the impressive technology and rigorous checking they boast about, they couldn't even find errors like "atthtthi". Simple regex queries bring up many of these errors. One that I'm looking at right now is: [...] #3299 From: Noah Yuttadhammo Date: Thu Sep 22, 2011 12:42 pm Subject: RE: VRI Tipitaka Typos Dear Chris, Thanks, I forgot all about that version. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo On Sep 22, 2011 11:32 AM, "Chris Clark" wrote: > Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, > > cetopariyañāṇaṃ is the reading in the "World Tipitaka" online text: > > http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/tipitaka/37P1/14/14.7/14.7.1/14.7.1.1/Arammana > > Regards, > Chris [...] #3300 From: "bhikkhu" Date: Wed Oct 5, 2011 7:02 am Subject: A new paper uploaded Dear members, After a long period of absence, I have been able to upload a new paper again. It is "new_approach.pdf" in the bhikkhu_pandita folder of the Files section. This paper is a critique of the "Two Modes of Dhamma" concept by Steven Collins in his book titled "Nirvana and Other Buddhist Felicities: Utopias of the Pali Imaginaire". Using the concept of intention as karma, I have argued that there is only one mode of Dhamma in the Early Buddhism, that is, that of absolute values which are context-independent and non-negotiable. I hope it would be interesting. As usual, I should say that I reserve all rights since I intend to send the paper to a scholarly journal. with metta, Ven. Pandita #3301 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Tue Oct 25, 2011 3:52 am Subject: Pali Dictionary Android App Dear Friends, Just a note in case anyone out there has an Android device. This free app provides a set of Pali dictionaries for Android, including CPED, CEPD, DPPN, and PED: https://market.android.com/details?id=org.yuttadhammo.cped Blessings, Yuttadhammo #3302 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Wed Nov 2, 2011 6:48 am Subject: Pali Language Q&A Site Dear Friends, I know many people on this list are not very technologically inclined (ahem, Jim ;) ), but for those of you who are, I thought this might be of some interest. I've just proposed a Pali Language Expert forum to Stack Exchange, the highly popular user-run Q&A platform. If anyone here is interested in taking part in the discussion as an expert (the site is designed to be expert-based, not amateur) then please do follow the proposal here: http://area51.stackexchange.com/proposals/36197/pali-language?referrer=XOQc6CHqv\ G1gY2ZyB7-nGg2 Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3303 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Nov 7, 2011 9:13 pm Subject: HOS reference needed for a quote Dear list-members, The following is a quote from the Visuddhimagga: “Na hettha devo brahmā vā, saṃsārassatthikārako; suddhadhammā pavattanti, hetusambhārapaccayā”ti. 6 ---CSCD 3: CS 2.238 I would appreciate the corresponding HOS reference, i.e., page no. or chapter no./para. no. for Warren's edition. I'd have checked the PTS correspondence tables for the Visuddhimagga and commentaries but do not have it on hand here. I'm responding to an enquiry I received off-list. Best wishes, Jim #3304 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Nov 7, 2011 11:20 pm Subject: Re: HOS reference needed for a quote Sorry for the premature post. I have found the reference I was looking for. Vism XIX.20 p. 517 Jim -- In palistudy@yahoogroups.com, "Jim Anderson" wrote: > > Dear list-members, > > The following is a quote from the Visuddhimagga: > > “Na hettha devo brahmā vā, saṃsārassatthikārako; > suddhadhammā pavattanti, hetusambhārapaccayā”ti. 6 > ---CSCD 3: CS 2.238 > #3305 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:56 am Subject: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Friends, Just wondering whether anyone knows something about the online version of the Critical Pali Dictionary here: http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/ Am I correct in noticing that it only contains entries from a-k? The website seems to imply that it is complete, but searches only work for the mentioned range of letters. Best wishes, Yuttadhammo #3306 From: Chris Clark Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 6:24 am Subject: RE: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Venerable Yuttadhammo, Just like the online version, the printed CPD covers only these letters. I believe the last word in the last fascicle is ‘kāreti’. For comments on its recent history, see http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/intro/notice_about_development_vol3.html Sadly, work on the CPD has now been discontinued. Regards, Chris ---------- Dear Friends, Just wondering whether anyone knows something about the online version of the Critical Pali Dictionary here: http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/ [http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/] [...] #3307 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 9:18 am Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Tuttadhammo, The online version of the CPD is identical with the published version. I had it made and published online by the University of Copenhagen. The CPD has been discontinued because it turned out to be impossible to finance writing and publishing it. It only contains entries from a-k, and it is thus unfinished. The last fascicle written by Oskar von Hinüber and Nalini Balbir has just been published, and that is the end of this important distionary project. Ole Holten Pind ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuttadhammo" To: ; Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 6:56 AM Subject: [palistudy] Critical Pali Dictionary > Dear Friends, > > Just wondering whether anyone knows something about the online version > of the Critical Pali Dictionary here: > > http://pali.hum.ku.dk/cpd/ [...] #3308 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:23 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Ole and Chris, Thank you, I found out this had been asked already; apologies for not doing my research before asking :) I've just downloaded the entire online edition as it stands... I'll look at it and maybe include it in the DPR if that is okay? Sorry to hear it is only A-K, but I guess it will still be quite useful. Blessings, Yuttadhammo On 12/12/2011 02:48 PM, Ole Holten Pind wrote: > > Dear Tuttadhammo, > The online version of the CPD is identical with the published version. > I had [...] #3309 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:37 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuttadhammo" To: Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Ole and Chris, Thank you, I found out this had been asked already; apologies for not doing my research before asking :) [...] #3310 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:42 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Yuttadhammo, It is nice to know that you have downloaded the online version. The last fascicle is to be added to the online version too. Blessings, Ole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuttadhammo" To: Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:23 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Ole and Chris, Thank you, I found out this had been asked already; apologies for not doing my research before asking :) [...] #3311 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 1:51 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Ole, Does that mean the last fascicle is not yet in the online version? Thanks, Yuttadhammo On 12/12/2011 07:12 PM, Ole Holten Pind wrote: > > Dear Yuttadhammo, > It is nice to know that you have downloaded the online version. The last > fascicle is to be added to the online version too. > Blessings, > Ole [...] #3312 From: Eugen Ciurtin Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 2:08 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Yuttadhammo, Sorry for intruding with this bit of praise. It seems today somehow secondary that CPD was not recently resumed 'faute de combatants' (Georges-Jean Pinault). It however remains the largest and finest lexicographical project for Pali (started from a solitary Nachla�) - a milestone of scholarship in the most solid and perpetual sense [of course: with the Buddhist proviso for perpetuity]. Perhaps even more than any other dictionary of an Indic language (including even the noted collective enterprises), CPD is a transgenerational achievement which magnificently shows the task and very concrete results [also in terms of true understanding] of Indian/[South] Asian studies. Moreover, past and present detractors of 'Oriental' studies as form of domination may always learn something really new from such undertakings which inter alia prove 'Benedictine' work was sometimes by far superseeded by non-Christian endeavour. It is a pity that the manifold discussion of legacy and prospect of South Asian studies only very rarely includes such major achievements as CPD. The Danish/international editors are to be thanked for graciously allowing a free online version of all fascicules already published: this extended, some years ago, its wide-ranging utility through combined search well beyond the letters included. Several research reviews of editors/contributors like K.R. Norman, the late Colette Caillat, and Oskar von Hin�ber are also of great help (I however know of no website republishing them all). with mettaa Eugen #3313 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:37 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Thank you Eugen, I'm just dipping into it now... the mere fact of having over 25,000 entries from a-k says something :) One thing that is a shame is the online texts are corrupt... check out the entry for akkhara, for example: akkhara, m. & n. [sa. aks.ara; cf. Nett-a 208,32], 1. a. sound, syllable, letter of the alphabet, (pl. also: inscription), Abh 348 (~o), 1063 (~am.); the "letters" (or sounds, van.n.a-), beginning with a, are 41 in all, viz. 8 sara- and 33 vya�jana-, ending with la & am., Kacc 2 (~a- a-ka-r�dayo eka-catta-li-sam.), whilst at Mogg I 1 we find the number 43, because distinction is made between e- & o- and o- & �? (the latter before conjunct consonant); the single letters are named a-ka-ra, ya-ka-ra, etc., Kacc 606; �EUR" sg. = syllable, Ja III 46,26 (ekekam.~am.); in writing (lipi), Mil 79,28; �EUR" m. pl. ~a- ta-sam. [scil. ga-tha-nam.] vya�janam., SN I 38,21*; aparima-n.a- ~a-, Nett 8,29 (Nett-a); 8000 a° = 1 bha-n.ava-ra, q. v. �EUR" n. pl. mana-pa-ni vata ~a-ni samasi-sa-ni samapanti-ni caturam.sa-ni, Ps III 682,15; ~a-ni chinditva- (with letters engraved) Ja II 90,15; VI 390,18; I 8,17; ~a-ni va-cetva-, ib. 8,23; ~a-ni disva-, Ja VI 407,19; ~a-ni likhita-ni, Ja IV 7,20; 489,18; ta-sam. ga-tha-nam. a-di-° ~a-ni, Pv-a 280,17 (cf. 10); gen. pl. ~a-nam. sannipa-tam., Dhp 352 (Dhp-a IV 70,21, cf. akkhara-pin.d.a). �EUR" opp. to pada (a word), ~a-ni sampin.d.etva- padam. vattum. sakkoti, Ps II 70,18; Nett 38,17, 26; Kacc-v. Introd. v. 2; opp. to pada (a quarter of a stanza), Pj I 117,20; Ps II 70,18; Spk ad SN I 38,21*. �EUR" 2. n., DN III 86,25 (Sv) . . . 89,6 (? Mvu I 340,17) : pora-n.am. agga��am. ~am. anu- patanti (or anupadanti), etc. = 'they follow (repeat) that old saying (not recognizing the signification there- of)'; DN III 93,11-14 (quoted As 390,32); 94,1-14-24; 95,6-15; here the meaning 'imperishable' seems to go on along with that of (syllables) 'word' (cf. aks.ara in the Upanishads). �EUR"- 3. n. = nibba-na ('imperish- able'), Abh 7 & 1063 (~am.). �EUR" Ifc. see anta°, anvakkharam., apara°, avyatta(pada)°, a-di-°, catur-°, catuvi-sat'-°, citta°, pamita°, pubba° bavh-°, s�kkhara-, sa��a°, sol.asa°. �EUR" Cf. ak- khara, f. I'm not sure if the above will go through email correctly, but the problem characters are: �EUR � �? It would be nice to know what these characters actually are, as I'm trying to put it all together as a valid xml file... is there a scanned version on-line? On 12/12/2011 07:38 PM, Eugen Ciurtin wrote: > > Dear Yuttadhammo, > > Sorry for intruding with this bit of praise. > > It seems today somehow secondary that CPD was not recently resumed 'faute > de combatants' (Georges-Jean Pinault). It however remains the largest and > finest lexicographical project for Pali (started from a solitary [...] #3314 From: "Ole Holten Pind" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:42 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Yuttadhammo, I don´t know. I think that von Hinüber has sent an e-copy of the last fascicle to be uploaded. As soon as I have found out what is happening, I´ll let you know. Best, Ole ----- Original Message ----- From: "Yuttadhammo" To: Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 2:51 PM Subject: Re: [palistudy] Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Ole, Does that mean the last fascicle is not yet in the online version? Thanks, Yuttadhammo [...] #3315 From: Yuttadhammo Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 3:43 pm Subject: Re: Critical Pali Dictionary Dear Ole, Thank you, it's much appreciated, as with all the work that went into this text. On 12/12/2011 09:12 PM, Ole Holten Pind wrote: > > Dear Yuttadhammo, > I don´t know. I think that von Hinüber has sent an e-copy of the last > fascicle to be uploaded. > As soon as I have found out what is happening, I´ll let you know. > Best, > Ole [...] #3316 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Mon Dec 12, 2011 5:17 pm Subject: Fw: Pali-painting Dear Members, I am forwarding the following email (see below) I received this morning. It seems that Ms Karen Wendland of the Pali Text Society had Mikael re-direct his enquiry to this group. Anyone interested in doing a painting of the word "dukkha"? I have received similar emails before about the words "anatta" and "anicca". I suspect the motive is to have such words tattooed on the body. Best wishes, Jim ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mikael Modin" To: Sent: Monday, December 12, 2011 6:14 AM Subject: Pali-painting > Hi, > > I'm looking to have a painting done, a fairly specific painting. I'd > like the buddistic word "dukkha" written in Pali with a nice > background and other nice little touches. Are any of you aware of > somebody that would be able to help me with this? Either if you could > write "Dukkha" in Pali and e-mail me a photo of it, or if you could > put me in touch with an artist. I'm based in Sweden so the closer to > that the better. > > In case I've got some of the words wrong, here's what I mean: > Dukkha: > - en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dukkha > - buddhism.about.com/od/abuddhistglossary/g/dukkhadef.htm > > Pali: > The lower text box in this image: > http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Sanskrit-Pali_Faulmann_Gesch_T10.jpg > > I got your address from a nice lady of the Pali Text Society, I hope > you're able to help me. > > Kind regards, > Mikael Modin #3317 From: "Mark Allon" Date: Tue Dec 13, 2011 7:07 am Subject: RE: Fw: Pali-painting Dear Jim, Does "dukkha" and "with a nice background and other nice little touches" go together? Regards Mark > -----Original Message----- > From: palistudy@yahoogroups.com [mailto:palistudy@yahoogroups.com] On > Behalf Of Jim Anderson > Sent: Tuesday, 13 December 2011 4:17 AM > To: palistudy@yahoogroups.com > Subject: [palistudy] Fw: Pali-painting > > Dear Members, > > I am forwarding the following email (see below) I received this morning. #3318 From: "Jim Anderson" Date: Tue Dec 13, 2011 3:32 pm Subject: Re: Fw: Pali-painting Dear Mark, Thanks for the response. I couldn't help chuckling when I first read your question. From a Buddhist perspective my answer is yes, they do go together. Now I'm putting the two together in an imaginary painting and taking "dukkha" in the context of "all formations are dukkha" (sabbe saṅkhārā dukkhā). I think we can include a painting (as visible object) in "all formations". Best wishes, Jim > Dear Jim, > > Does "dukkha" and "with a nice background and other nice little touches" > go together? > > Regards > Mark > <----end of messages for 2011----> Appendix I Subject-lines listed by date for 2011 [note: original poster and message numbers are within square brackets; numbers within round brackets indicate total of messages for the month or for the thread if more than 1] January 2011 (26) 04 Kc 51 [Jim Anderson] [3164-7] (4) 20 Brahmajala Sutta & World Tipitaka [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3168-9] (2) Strange Texts [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3170] 22 World TIpitaka [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3171-2] (2) Firefox version of World Tipitaka [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3173-4, 3178-83] (8) 26 Annual Group Report for 2010 [Jim Anderson] [3175] 27 New Book [George Bedell] [3176-7] (2) 29 DPR, Brahmajala Sutta [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3184] 31 Standards in Sutta numbering [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3185-9] (5) February 2011 (14) 09 Fw: New Publication: Dictionary of Pali, Vol 2 [Jim Anderson] [3190] 10 Sanskrit Materials [Stephen Hodge] [3191] 20 Sv-p.t I 1 (ta.m) [Jim Anderson] [3192-7] (6) 25 BPS Abbreviations [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3198-3202] (5) 25 electronic Pali dictionaries in other languages [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3203] March 2011 (8) 19 Two papers published in the Journal of Buddhist Ethics [Bhikkhu Pandita] [3204] About Prof. Deokar [Bhikkhu Pandita] [3205-6] (2) Re: Prof. Deokar's book [Susanne Goetz] [3207] 27 Dictionary of Pali Proper Names [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3208-11] (4) April 2011 (38) 10 ārocesu [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3212-6] (5) 22 bhikkhave [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3217-27, 3229, 3231-2, 3238] (15) 23 Textual criticism of Pali writings [Bryan Levman] [3228, 3230, 3233-7, 3239-46] (15) 25 Re: Fwd: Re: [Pali] sevitabba [Bryan Levman] [3247-8] [note: posted to wrong group] (2) 26 DPR Thai alternative [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3249] May 2011 (5) 09 tapenti [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3250-52] (3) 31 Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 1-2) [Jim Anderson] [3253] Pali course [Mark Allon] [3254] June 2011 (21) 06 Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 3-6) [Jim Anderson] [3255-61] (7) 16 Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verses 7-8) [Jim Anderson] [3262-3, 3265-6, 3269] (5) 17 culla-nirutti [O.H. Pind] [3264, 3267-8] (3) 24 Thai Vinaya in DPR [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3270, 3273] (2) Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 9) [Jim Anderson] [3271-2, 3274-5] (4) July 2011 (20) 01 Sv-n.t I 1-2 (introductory verse 10) [Jim Anderson] [3276-84] (9) 09 atypical vitakka in Mil 116? [Eugen Ciurtin] [3285-7] (3) 12 Sayadaw Ashin Thitzana [Jim Anderson] [3288] 15 DPR Custom Search [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3289] 26 Gāndhārī cadurag[h]ulu in context [Eugen Ciurtin] [3290-5] (6) August 2011 (1) 16 FWD: Urgent appeal for Water Relief for Bodhirukaramaya Vihara [Khristos Nizamis] [3296] Setember 2011 (3) 22 VRI Tipitaka Typos [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3297-9] (3) October 2011 (2) 05 A new paper uploaded [Bhikkhu Pandita] [3300] 25 Pali Dictionary Android App [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3301] November 2011 (3) 02 Pali Language Q&A Site [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3302] 07 HOS reference needed for a quote [Jim Anderson] [3303-4] (2) December 2011 (14) 12 Critical Pali Dictionary [Noah Yuttadhammo] [3305-3315] (11) Fw: Pali-painting [Jim Anderson] [3316-8] (3) Appendix II No. of new subject lines initroduced by: 19 Noah Yuttadhammo 11 Jim Anderson 3 Eugen Ciurtin 3 Bhikkhu Pandita 2 Bryan Levman 1 Mark Allon 1 George Bedell 1 Susanne Goetz 1 Stephen Hodge 1 Khristos Nizamis 1 O.H. Pind A total of 44 new subject lines were introduced in the year 2011 by 11 members. Appendix III No. of posts per contributing member: 37 Noah Yuttadhammo 30 Jim Anderson 16 Bryan Levman 15 Petra Kieffer-Pülz 9 Eugen Ciurtin 9 Khristos Nizamis 7 Ole Holten Pind 6 Chris Clark 4 Susanne Goetz 4 Bhikkhu Pandita 3 Nyanatusita Bhikkhu 3 Mark Allon 2 L.S. Cousins 1 George Bedell 1 Steven Collins 1 Stephen Hodge 1 John Kelly 1 Branislav Kovacevic 1 Lennart Lopin 1 Tadao Miyamoto 1 Mahinda Palihawadana 1 Num Sitdhiraksa 1 Ma Vajira A total of 155 messages were posted in the year 2011 by 23 members.