On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 7:48 PM, Anton Bjerke anton_bjerke@... [Pali] <Pali@yahoogroups.com> wrote:

 

Here are some (I think very) interesting points from the traditional Mahayana commentaries as preserved in Tibet and explained by Tony Duff:

"[bhagavan] was and still is used by many Indian spiritual traditions as a term of the highest respect for the holy beings of their system, and that is how the term should be understood here. It did not ever, in the Indian system, refer exclusively to the Buddha."

"... the Hindu system ... states that in the positive sense a bhagavat possesses the qualities of being “fortunate” in general or “good in six ways". Buddhism uses this same explanation of the etymology of bhagavat, though when it explains sixfold goodness for a buddha, it explains that it is a result of practising the six paramitas, which differs from the explanation given in the Hindu system for Shiva and the others of the Hindu pantheon."

(the six goodnesses of: 1) “dbang phyug” dominion over others; 2) “gzugs bzang” an excellent body; 3) “dpal” glory; 4) “grags” fame; 5) “ye shes” wisdom; and 6) “brtson ’grus”perseverance.)

"It is generally accepted that all the holy beings of Indian religions —Shiva, and so on—have conquered the four maras and thereby come to possess the six good qualities but, according to Buddhism at least, only a buddha has transcended both of the two obscurations. Using the process explained just above, this understanding has been embodied in the Tibetan translation of bhagavat."

“Bhagavat” translates literally and perfectly into Tibetan “bcom ldan” where “bcom” is the equivalent of “bhaga” and
“ldan” is the equivalent of “vat”. However, the early Tibetan translators rejected that as a translation because the term
referred to a holy person in all religious groups, not just to a buddha. They wanted it to refer only to a buddha so they added an extra word "’das”, to the end of “bcom ldan” to make “bcom ldan ’das” which they explained to mean “he who has conquered the four maras, he who has come to possess the six goodnesses, and he who has transcended the two obscurations”. Holy beings in general are considered to have the first two qualities but Buddhists, at least, consider that transcendence of the two obscurations—the coarser obscuration to total knowledge of having afflictions and the subtler one preventing total knowledge even when the coarser ones have been removed—is a feature of a buddha alone."

[quotes from Tony Duff's "Unending auspiciousness - the Sutra of the recollection of the Noble Three Jewels"]

Because of these reasons many translators leave "bhagavan" untranslated, which to me seems the best thing to do ...

Anton Bjerke

On 2014-11-03 03:20, Dc Wijeratna dcwijeratna@... [Pali] wrote:

 

PTS dictionary gives Bhagavant:fortunate, illustrious, sublime, as Ep. and title "Lord." Usual trs. Blessed One, Exalted One.

The translation bhagavant as Blessed One cannot be understood. 

Blessed is associated with God; see the definition of blessed in the Oxford Dictionaries. 

I shall be grateful, if someone could clarify this.

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Metta is being friendly to everybody

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Metta is being friendly to everybody