Continued from PART ONE
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Bryan, you were not aware of the above uses of ‘tabba’ because you haven’t studied Kaccāyana Pāli grammar and its commentary, Padarūpasiddhi.
Regarding my translation of “udako siñcitabbo” as ‘the water is poured’, you wrote the following.
“I would translate, "The water is to be poured", which is more in line with the grammars quoted above and with the "three tenses" of the above sutta. For "the water is poured" is only in the present tense, but "the water is to be poured" is more of a universal, transcending any one tense - i. e. it is to be poured in the past, in the present, and in the future, i. e. water is always to be poured.”
Bryan, by writing the above paragraph, you have demonstrated not only your poor command of English, but also your misunderstanding of the four suttas I translated. Where on earth did you learn English, Bryan?
I reproduced my comment on the use of ‘tabba’ and ‘anīya’ in the passive voice below.
“2. When attached to a transitive verb, the suffix conveys the meaning of passive voice. For example,“udako siñcitabbo.” The water is poured. ”
I composed the above example Pāli sentence to demonstrate how ‘tabba’ is used in the passive voice. I was NOT discussing how a verb can express the universal behaviour if constructed in a particular tense.
When you wrote ("The water is to be poured,"which is more in line with the grammars quoted above and with the "three tenses" of the above sutta”), you merely demonstrated that you did not read carefully the translated suttas and my comments on them, and that you did not understand them at all.
Now, let us look at how we use the present tense without the infinitive ‘to’ in English to express the universal events and regular or habitual actions.
“Sūriyena uggacchitabbo puratthimāya disāya.” The sun rises in the east.
“Nadiya sanditabbo.” The river flows.
Bryan, we don’t say in English that the sun is to rise in the east. Neither do we say that the river is to flow.
Examples of the regular activities of the people.
“Uyyānapālena rukkhamūlesu udako siñcitabbo uyyāne dine dine.”
The water is poured by the gardener on the roots of the trees in the garden every day.
“Kumbhā vikkinhitabbo kumbhakārena jīvanatthāya.”
Pots are sold by the pot maker for livelihood.
We don’t say in English that the water is to be poured by the gardener on the roots of the trees in the garden every day.
You also wrote:
“I am not sure that this sutta precludes the translation of a -tabba or -anīya ending as "to be V-ed".”
Bryan, your unsureness about sutta 548 was because you had a preconceived idea about the meaning of ‘tabba’ as a future passive participle alone and because you did not read the translated suttas carefully.
The four suttas that I provided and translated are chosen for correct interpretation of the syntax ‘viññātabbanti viññāṇaṃ’. There is no need to interpolate the verb pattern ‘be to be V-ed’ for the contexts addressed by the four suttas I offered. There are other suttas for ‘tabba’ and ‘anīya’ in Kaccāyana that deal with the contexts in which the verb pattern ‘be to be V-ed’ can be used. For example, when the words with ‘tabba’ and ‘anīya’ are used to covey the meaning of exhortation, then the verb pattern ‘be to be V-ed’ can become handy. Please consult Kaccāyana Pāli Grammar.
Recommendations for Bryan
1. There is room for improvement in your command of English.
2. You still need to address the issues of basic Pāli syntax such as the uses of ‘iti’. RC Childer’s Pāli English Dictionary contains many examples of how to use ‘iti’.
3. If you are serious about becoming a Pāli scholar, you cannot avoid studying Monastic Pāli Grammar texts such as Kaccāyana Pāli grammar. I read many years ago that a group member in pālistudy group was translating Kaccāyana Pāli grammar. Please ask Jim Anderson, the owner and moderator of pālistudy group, about that group member and the progress of his translation.
4. As you still lack the ability to do independent research in advanced Pāli texts such as Padarūpasiddhi, you should defer tackling Pāli commentaries and sub-commentaries. You are not ready to interpret them at this stage.
5. I have translated the verse at Paragraph 499 of Kevatta Sutta, its commentary and sub-commentary many years, perhaps about 10 years, before. If you are interested to read them, visit dhammastudy group and request Sarah Abbott , the group owner and moderator, to locate them or repost them for the group.
“Ayam kathāsallāpo niţţhāpetabbo”.
This conversation is closed.
With regards,
suanluzaw