Dear PG,
I wonder if 4 years is a record delay on this group!
As I have found the attempt to focus on the present moment unhelpful in
my own meditation practice, I've had my doubts that the Buddha ever
referred to living in the moment or awareness of the present moment or
present moment awareness. My problems are: sometimes the mind works so
fast that the experience I am being aware of has gone by the time I am
aware of it; also, if the past or future is in awareness now, I don't
see that present moment awareness adds anything to my practice. I was
tying myself in knots trying to achieve present-moment awareness that
made any difference.
I think Dhammapada Verse 348. Reaching The Further Shore, advises
against present moment awareness:
Let go before, let go the after,
let go the middle, beyond the becoming.
With mind released in every way
you'll come no more to birth, decay.
348. muñca pure muñca pacchato, majjhe muñca bhavassa
pÄragÅ«.
sabbattha vimuttamÄnaso, na punaá¹ jÄtijaraá¹
upehisi.
Here I am taking 'majjhe' as meaning what is between the present and
past, i.e. the present moment, which Joseph Goldstein does.
Joseph Goldstein in the first 10 minutes of his Talk 21 of the
Satipatthana series examines the advantages and disadvantages of present
moment awareness and concludes that he does not want a construct like
'present moment', he wants reality.
http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/300/
<
http://dharmaseed.org/teacher/96/talk/300/> This where I got the
Dhammapada quote from.
Christopher Titmuss critiques present moment awareness in Dharma Enews
12 August 2007 in "Is the Now a lot of hype?"
http://www.insightmeditation.org/index.php/welcome/eng/dharmanews
<
http://www.insightmeditation.org/index.php/welcome/eng/dharmanews>
So does Georges Dreyfus in "Is mindfulness present-centred and
non-judgemental?"
http://www.scribd.com/doc/145945785/Contemporary-Buddhism-Special-Issue-\
on-Mindfulness
<
http://www.scribd.com/doc/145945785/Contemporary-Buddhism-Special-Issue\
-on-Mindfulness>
There seems to be a view around of the Buddha as a kind of ancient
Eckhart Tolle and some translations seem to support this. Bhikkhu Bodhi
regularly translates 'dhammo.....sandit.t.hiko' as 'the dhamma visible
here and now' eg MLDB page 358 MN 38.25. However, 'sandit.t.hiko' is
literally 'completely visiible', which I interpret as 'obvious',
'transparent', 'open'; there is certainly no 'here' or 'now in the Pali.
Now I have used Dhp 348 to say the Buddha did not advocate present
moment awareness, but others in this group have used MN 131
Bhaddekaratta Sutta to claim the opposite. !f you look closely, there is
an ambiguity; the translation of 'paccuppannam' as 'presently-arisen'
(MLDB page 1039) can mean (1) 'present in awareness' or (2) ' in
present-moment awareness', as the English 'present' can refer to
existence or to time; meaning (1) supports my stance against present
moment awareness and meaning (2) supports the opposite! To be honest,
given Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of 'sandit.t.hiko', I think he
intended meaning (2), but did the Buddha? The PED gives for
'paccuppanna' 'what has arisen (just now), existing, present (as opposed
to .. past and... future)', but still I doubt: PED gives the derivation
of 'paccuppanna' as 'pat.i + uppajjati' and the article on 'pat.i' does
not offer the meaning 'now' and only offers 'again' in a temporal sense;
so I wonder if the PED inadvertently slipped from meaning (1),
'existent', to meaning (2), 'present-moment', never imagining that a
whole philosophy of the now and present-moment awareness would be
hooked onto this anomalous interpretation of 'pat.i' as 'now' !
To sum up: either the Buddha contradicts himself between Dhp 348 and
MN131 on present-moment awareness or the PED contradicts itself in its
understanding of 'pat.i' and 'paccuppanna'. At the moment, PG, I can't
see MN 131 as supporting the modern idea of present moment awareness,
but that puts me in the difficult position of agreeing with the PED on
'pat.i', but disagreeing with the PED on 'paccuppanna', which I take to
mean 'come to mind, the contents of mind' without any temporal
reference; if temporal reference to 'now' were seriously meant, the Pali
would surely use 'vuttamaana'. I would really appreciate some feedback
on this point.
I'm sorry if I have muddied the waters for you and, if you find
'present-moment awareness' a useful concept, please keep it. But it is
not useful for me or some others and I genuinely doubt that the Buddha
taught it. I wonder if those who do see this concept in the Buddha's
teachings are projecting a modern zeitgeist onto the Buddha.
Better late than never,
With metta
Stefan Karpik
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Piya Tan wrote:
>
> This is an insightful note, bhante. I'm always ecstatic when monastics
> speak on the suttas, esp with insight.
>
> Pali words, as we know, are often pregnant with nuances. Often, in
> English, it takes multiple words, even sentences, to bring all of them
out.
> Hence it is vital to know (as far as possible) of the context of the
word
> or term.
>
> This is where I use an ":amplified translation" strategy (where
needed) to
> try to bring out what is difficult to represent fully in English.
Building
> on what Kumara has suggested, we could render the Bhaddekaratta
> Sutta quote as follows:
>
> "*Let one not pursue** [not dwell on] the past,*"
>
> Oh yes, I like "pursue" because it somewhat rhymes with "past". We
should
> try our best to present our translations both in "truth and beauty."
>
> The best way to know early Buddhism is of course to know Pali as we
know
> our own language. However, this may limit accessibility for others.
> Moreover the value and purpose of a translation is more so to convey
the
> meaning (attha) of the text. Hence, we may often need to use some
> contemporary words and expressions, esp idiomatic language. This is
where
> the amplified translations, footnotes, etc help to support in making
the
> word or passage meaning clearer. The teacher's task is to make them
> relevant to our times and people.
>
> Contemporary psychotherapy (esp the cognitive behaviour therapy
systems)
> heavily borrow from Buddhism and often build up their own vocabulary
and
> neologisms. If these are wisely used, they help us relate to Buddhist
> teachings in a healing way where healing is needed. (I've just
finished a
> comparative study of ACT and early Buddhism, SD 43.1). Modern
psychology
> poses a great challenge we need to answer, too. Sujato has written a
> helpful paper on this recently.
>
> Otherwise, we all have our way of relating to the suttas so that we
> somehow, esp through meditation, have a progressively better
understanding
> of not only what the Buddha teaches, but more importantly, what the
Buddha
> means. This, in my life's evening, after over 40 years of Buddhism, I
must
> say that we need to simply let go of more and more of our views as we
go
> along. Not easy, but liberating.
>
> A good way to know that the suttas are working for us, is that we able
to
> let go of our views as we go along. We just let the suttas speak for
> themselves, as it were. Those who regular meditate would notice that a
clam
> and clear mind is free from views, and this is simply blissful. This
is
> what the suttas ultimately point to.
>
> With metta and mudita,
>
> Piya
>
>
> On Wed, Aug 14, 2013 at 11:04 AM, Kumara Bhikkhu
> kumara.bhikkhu@...wrote:
>
> > **
> >
> >
> > I'd like to update my choice of translation for the opening line of
> > Bhaddekaratta gatha "Atiita.m naanvaagameyya"
> >
> > atiita.m = past
> > naanvaagameyya = na anu + aagameyya
> > na = not
> > anu = (prefix) along, repeatedly, continually
> > aagameyya = optative of aagameti = would aagameti
> > aagameti = stay; wait, wait for, welcome, expect
> >
> > So the sutta, in referring to the spiritual practitioner who is
> > attentive of the present, says that he (in idiomatic English) "would
> > not dwell on the past". The suttas define that as being carried away
> > with delightful thoughts about the past. In other words, we are lost
> > in thoughts of the past. This is not the same as remembering past
> > events while being present-minded.
> >
> > Kumara Bhikkhu wrote thus at 05:46 PM 26-03-09:
> > >That's an edifying point, Lennart.
> > >
> > >I notice that many meditators are misled by the phrase "living in
> > >the present", such that when the mind settles and memories of the
> > >past arise, they take it to mean that it should not happen, because
> > >they are not "living in the present". So, they suppress the memory
> > >and "come back to the present" breath, or whatever. They don't
> > >realise that while the memories are associated with the past, they
> > >are arising in the present.
> > >
> > >This can be rather unfortunate when the matter is an unresolved
> > >emotional issues, or what some call a psychological wound. When
such
> > >a memory arises, it's an opportunity to resolve it by seeing it,
> > >together with all kinds of reactions to it, with wisdom as it is.
> > >Then the practice can be seen directly as a path of purification,
> > >sokaparidevaana.m samatikkamaaya, dukkhadomanassaana.m
> > >attha"ngamaaya, ~naayassa adhigamaaya, nibbaanassa sacchikiriyaaya.
> > >
> > >Coincidentally, I was looking through the MLDB Bhaddekaratta Sutta
> > >translation, which Nina reproduced here. It begins with "Let not a
> > >person revive the past" as the translation of
> > >"Atiita.m naanvaagameyya". Someone who reads this English
> > >translation may respond in the same way as above. When I read this,
> > >it occurred to me, "Could Ven Bhikkhu Bodhi's unending migraine be
> > >due to suppression of unhappy memories?"
> > >
> > >Anyway, I think the sentence is more correctly translated as "Let
> > >not one *pursue* the past." The difference may be outwardly subtle,
> > >but significant in a practice where subtle things (dhammas) matter.
> > >
> > >kb
> > >
> > >Lennart Lopin wrote thus at 11:44 PM 23-03-09:
> > >>Is it really "paccupannanca jiivati"
> > >>
> > >>or rather
> > >>
> > >>"paccupannanca yo dhammam, tattha tattha vipassati"
> > >>
> > >>;-)
> > >>
> > >>On Mon, Mar 23, 2009 at 2:15 AM, DC Wijeratna dcwijeratna@...
> > wrote:
> > >>
> > >> > Whole of the Satipa.t.thaana sutta is about living in the
present.
> > >> > D. G. D. C. Wijeratna
> > >> >
> > >> > ________________________________
> > >> > From: Piya Tan dharmafarer@... >
> > >> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> > >> > Sent: Sunday, March 22, 2009 6:04:43 PM
> > >> > Subject: Re: [Pali] Buddha and the present moment.
> > >> >
> > >> >
> > >> > See the Bhaddekaratta Suttas (M 131-137).
> > >> >
> > >> > There are others, which others might point out.
> > >> >
> > >> > With metta,
> > >> >
> > >> > Piya Tan
> > >> >
> > >> > On Sun, Mar 22, 2009 at 11:01 AM, pgd2507 pgd2507@... com>
wrote:
> > >> >
> > >> > > Dear pali scholars,
> > >> > >
> > >> > > I was wondering if the buddha spoke on what in modern terms
is often
> > >> > > referred as "living in the present moment" or "being in the
now".
> > >> > > Mindfulness of the breath and mindfulness of vedanaa are no
doubt
> > >> > excellent
> > >> > > tools of keeping one in the present moment but are there any
suttas
> > >> > > dedicated to the now and how "being in the now" works
beneficially?
> > >> > >
> > >> > > with metta,
> > >> > > PG
> >
> >
> >
>
>
>
> --
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