Dear Venerable Kumara,

just in preparation of a travel, I am sorry that my response may be short of proper attention to your comment.

In general I consider the similes (bathman,lake,lotus pond ,man covered with cloth) giving important clues about the 4 Jhana states and suppose you may agree with me .

As the first approach stated by G.S. is concerned :

'i) attention training where one absorbs into > a single object and thereby stills all mental

> factors

D: is in line with the texts, although not these word are used , isn't it?

"to the point where, as Ajahn > Brahmavamso explains, "Consciousness is so > focused on the one thing that the faculty of

> comprehension is suspended . there is no comprehension of what is going on."

D: perhaps 'no need' of comprehension of what is going on respectively 'no disturbance' ( by the senses media) would fit as well .
.. compare pls e.g. with the Buddha' s statement that he used the Jhanas to withdraw from the pain due to old age (Maha Pari- Nibbana Sutta) or comments that even loud thunder would not disturb the disciples.
One-pointedness is a chracteristic of the Jhanas, isn't it?

with Metta Dieter

----- Original Message -----
From: Kumara Bhikkhu
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Sunday, February 10, 2013 7:42 AM
Subject: Geoff Shatz's Conclusion -- Re: Fw: [Pali] All of that is considered Jhana?



Dear Deiter,

I fully agree wtth GS that "it's really a matter
of what each of us has tried and found helpful for our own practice."

However, I'd like to question the conclusion of
"all 3 approaches are seemingly in line with the
texts " Hope you don't mind referring to what GS wrote again:
* For the second one, he said, "I consider
the resultant meditative state of this second
approach to represent an accurate assessment of
jhana as it's presented in the suttas."
* For the third, "Thus this approach can
certainly lead to jhana. This is entirely in
keeping with what is outlined in the suttas."

Nothing of this sort was said for the first. From
my own research (though nowhere as extensive as his), I can see why.

Nonetheless, as GS said so very well, "everyone
is free to make up their own mind regarding what
they feel is necessary for their practice."

I'd like to add though that regardless of one's
decision, please bear in mind the purpose of the
Buddha's teachings, esp his instruction in
Dhammacakkappavatana Sutta "This first noble
truth of suffering is to be fully understood."

I try to be open minded about different
approaches. However, having taught meditation for
quite some years now, I've met quite a few who
are so inclined to absorptions that they are not
willing to meet suffering to understand it. Some
can't even get back to absorptions anymore, yet
they keep on trying and hoping. One was
eventually forced to meet suffering when she
became clinically depressed. A "gifted" student
of mine helped her through. Hope she has learnt the lesson.

kb




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