Well said, Gerard.

In Anupada Sutta, the description of states are
given in the similar manner, except for the base
of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, where
the state is known only upon emerging it. It
clear implies that the meditative state is known
during the experience while in the other states.

Although some people regard Anupada Sutta to be a
later addition (In the Chinese records MN came
out of the 2nd council.), it presents an
relatively early understanding of jhana, which is
unlike the Visuddhimagga kind.

kb

Gerard wrote thus at 05:28 PM 19-01-13:

>Hi Dieter,
>
>I am not a specialist in these matters, but still I venture to make some
>observations:
>
>I think it is not true that "absorption" and "burning up" refer to the same
>thing. Absorption is a highly concentrated state in which the senses don't
>function anymore, or, at least, don't function in a normal way. Somebody is
>said to be in absorption means, as I understand it, that he or she is one
>with the object, without any thinking or awareness of the body. Sujiva
>describes it as follows: "When one enters fixed concentration, the mind
>undergoes a specific form of mental process,...,which leaves behind any
>conscious subject-object experiences. This fixation can be cleary
>experienced as a merging of the mind with its object."
>I think this is the way "jhana" is normally interpreted. The
>Buddhaghosa 'etymology is indeed a popular one: according to Nyanatiloka's
>"Pali-Anthologie und Wörterbuch", the word "jhana" is from the Sanskrit root
>"dhyaa", or "dhi", which means to perceive, to think. Nyanatiloka writes:
>"erscheinen, bemerken, denken". There is also the word "jhana" that has the
>meaning "burn, to set on fire", but that is from the Sanskrit root "ksha".
>
>The meaning of jhana as absorption is the way Sujiva uses - and, if I am
>right, that is the normal conception of 'jhana" - is not in keeping with the
>sutta's.
>Let's take an example: in sutta 111 of the Majjhima Nikaya, the Anuppada
>Sutta, Sariputta's path to deliverance is described.
>
>"And the states in the first jhana - the applied thought, the sustained
>thought, the rapture, the pleasure, and the unification of mind; the
>contact, feeling, perception, volition, and mind" (that is: the 5 khanda's,
>GB); the zeal, decision, energy, mindfulness, equanimity, and attention -
>these states were defined by him one by one as they occurred; known to him
>these states arose, known they were present, known they disappeared. He
>understood thus: "So indeed, these states, not having been, come into being;
>having been, they vanish." Regarding those states, he abided unattracted,
>unrepelled, independent, detached, free, dissociated, with a mind rid of
>barriers. He understood: "There is an escape beyond", and with the
>cultivation of that attainment, he confirmed that there is." (Bikkhu Bodhi:
>the next attainment, the second jhana)
>Sariputta goes through all jhana's. At the end of the cycle, after reaching
>the base of neither-perception-nor-non-perception, he abides in the
>"cessation of perception and feeling'. Then follow the words: " And the
>taints were destroyed by his seeing with wisdom."
>
>So, it seems clear to me that jhana can coincide with awareness of the body
>and all other khanda's, that during the jhana's insight (vipassana...) into
>the arising and falling away of phenomena, i.e. awareness of impermanence,
>is present, and that the jhana-way can lead to complete liberation.
>This implies, I think, that the usual interpretation of 'jhana' as
>absorption, as one pointed concentration, is not in accordance with the
>sutta's.
>
>Metta,
>
>Gerard