Re: Question on mu.n.da

Thanks Ven. Yuttadhammo,

Metta,

Bryan

________________________________
From: Yuttadhammo <yuttadhammo@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 10:50:27 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Question on mu.n.da

run a search for khandhe katvaa and you'll see there are many examples
of this idiom:

ucchukalāpaṃ khandhe katvā

ayyaputtaṃ khandhe katvā

suvaṇṇakājaṃ khandhe katvā

etc.

On 12/09/2011 07:36 PM, Bryan Levman wrote:
> Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,
>
> Thanks for your help; that sounds reasonable, although a gerund like ukkhipitvā would have made more sense if that was the meaning - but I can't think of anything else,
>
> Metta, Bryan
>
>
>
>
> ________________________________
> From: Yuttadhammo<yuttadhammo@...>
> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
> Sent: Friday, December 9, 2011 7:43:46 AM
> Subject: Re: [Pali] Question on mu.n.da
>
>
>
> It threw me for a loop as well until I looked in the PED and remembered
> that khandhe can mean "on the shoulder/back", especially with the root
> /kar. So something like:
>
> having "made the bowl [rest] on his trunk" (i.e. slung it over his
> shoulder), he goes to the bhattasaala.
>
> I'm not sure the significance, but I assume it's just describing his
> poor behaviour.
>
> On 12/09/2011 05:04 PM, Bryan Levman wrote:
>> Dear Ven. Yuttadhammo,
>>
>> Thanks very much for your translation. In that passage you cite:
>>
>> ekacco asaaruppa.t.thaane pabbajitvaa ovaadaanusaasaniiuddesaparipucchaadiihi paribaahiro hutvaa paatova mu.n.dagha.ta.m gahetvaa udakatittha.m gacchati, aacariyupajjhaayaana.m bhattatthaaya khandhe patta.m katvaa bhattasaala.m gacchati, dubbacasaama.nerehi saddhi.m naanaakii.la.m kii.lati,
>>
>> what does khandhe patta.m katvaa mean?
>>
>> “A certain monk went forth into unsuitable places and he was
>> alien to the instructions, teachings,
>>
>> pointings out and questions, etc.; taking
>> an empty pitcher in hand very early, he went to a watering ford,
>>
>> and "khandhe patta.m katvaa" for the purpose of food for his teachers, he went to the
>> food hall,
>>
>> and sported with disobedient female novices and lived with boys of
>> the monastery.
>>
>>
>> It doesn't seem to fit into the context.
>>
>>
>> Thanks for your help,
>>
>> Metta, Bryan
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>>
>> ________________________________
>> From: Yuttadhammo<yuttadhammo@...>
>> To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
>> Sent: Thursday, December 8, 2011 10:14:48 PM
>> Subject: Re: [Pali] Question on mu.n.da
>>
>>
>>
>> Dear Bryan,
>>
>> mu.n.da seems to be a fairly flexible word... in the Sa.myutta
>> commentary there is a passage:
>>
>> pātova muṇḍaghaṭaṃ gahetvā udakatitthaṃ gacchati
>>
>> which I take to refer to a bare pot.
>>
>> CPED has:
>>
>> muṇḍa: shaven; void of vegetation; bare. (adj.)
>>
>> which seems to expand the meaning.
>>
>> As to the passage in question, my understanding is as follows - it is a
>> wheel with a thousand spokes (sahassaara.m), after (upari) every ten
>> spokes (dassana.m dassana.m) of which (yassa - I take this to refer to
>> the wheel, not the spokes), there is a single spoke that is
>> shaven/bare/etc. (mu.n.da), for the purpose of making sound
>> (saddakaraṇatthaṃ) when catching the wind (vātaṃ gahetvā). So, the
>> shaving seems to refer to a cut whistle hole of some sort... such that
>> the melody sounds like a well-played five-piece orchestra
>> (sukusalappatāḷitapañcaṅgikatūriyasaddo).
>>
>> Best wishes,
>>
>> Yuttadhammo
>>
>> On 12/08/2011 05:45 PM, Bryan Levman wrote:
>>> Dear Friends,
>>>
>>> Does anyone have an idea of what the word mu.n.da means in the following passage from
>>>
>>> the commentary on the Ratanasutta of the SuttaNipaata (p.172):
>>>
>>> seyyathida.m ra~n~no cakkavattissacakkaratana.m uppajjatiindaniilama.nimayanaabhi
>>>
>>> sattaratanamayasahassaara.m pavaa.lamayanemi, rattasuva.n.namayasandhi, yassadasanna.m
>>>
>>> dasanna.m araana.m uparieka.m mu.n.daara.m hotivaata.m gahetvaa saddakara.nattha.m,
>>>
>>> yenakatosaddosukusalappataa.litapa~nca"ngikatuuriyasaddoviyahoti
>>>
>>> (The Tathaagata is being compared to a jewel of the highest value, which of course, he is superior to)
>>>
>>> I tentatively translate as:
>>>
>>> namely the jewel
>>> (treasure) of the wheel of a universal (wheel-turning) monarch arises, the
>>> navel of which is made of sapphires, a thousand spokes are made of the seven
>>> jewels, the rim of the wheel is made of coral, the link [axle?] is made of
>>> burnished gold, the appearance of the wheel above the spokes is one muṇḍa spoke (mu.n.da-ara.m),
>>> with (gahetvā) the wind producing a sound, like the sound made by the five kinds of
>>> musical instruments, well-played and highly skilled.
>>>
>>>
>>> Questions: why is dassanam repeated twice - meaning seeing over and over again?
>>> What does yassa refer to? the king or the wheel?
>>> What does the word mu.n.da mean? Typically it would mean "bare" (i. e. shaven or bald) but that doesn't seem to fit the context.
>>>
>>> Any suggestions would be appreciated,
>>>
>>> Metta,
>>>
>>> Bryan
>>>
>>> [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>>>
>>>
>>>
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>>
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>>
>>
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>
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> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
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