Thanks Nina,

Yes it's gerundivum, not gerundivium. Thanks for your other examples,

Metta, Bryan

--- On Wed, 7/6/11, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
Subject: Re: [Pali] The New Pali Course Part III [49/120] gerund and gerundive.
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Received: Wednesday, July 6, 2011, 10:09 AM
















 









Dear Bryan,

Thank you, that is very clear. I just found this morning in Warder

lesson 16 the explanation under future passive participle. It may be

used as sentence verb or as adjective. That is -tabba is more often

used as sentence verb and that in aniiya as adjective.

As to Latin, yes, gerundivum (not: gerundivium) is a verb that

becomes an adjective:censeo (I judge) Carthaginem delendam esse

(Carthago must be destroyed).

As to gerundium: verb becomes a noun, the stem+nd= declination. Ars

scribendi, the art of writing.

As to the translation of -tabba, such as vanditabba, it is not always

must or ought, it can also mean it can.. depending on the context. If

one translates with must it can come out very strangely sometimes.

------

Nina.



Op 6-jul-2011, om 1:48 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:

>

> A future passive participle and a

> gerundive (also called a gerundivium which is its Latin name) are

> the same thing - a "future passive participle" (another name for a

> gerundivium) which is a verbal adjective, with the meaning "to be

> [past

> participle]" or "should be [past participle]", or "ought to be

> [past participle]."

>

> In this case vandiyaa is a gerundive meaning "to be

> praised" ("ought to be praised" or "should be praised") modifying

> the Buddhaas; the Sanskrit equivalent is vandya ("to be praised"),

> so vandiyaa, with the extra epenthetic -i- must be an eastern form

> (which is

> very common in Paali, e.g. ariya for ayya from Skt. arya.)

>

> vanditabba is derived from Skt. vanditavya which also means to be

> praised and is also a future passive participle, gerundive, a

> verbal adjective modifying Tathaagataas.. In Skt. there are three

> principle endings which create a gerundive: -ya, -tavya and -

> aniiya,, all added to the root in its gu.na grade. Paali also has

> more than one form as is apparent.

>

> All gerundives are passive. Gerunds are usually active (but can

> also be passive), but are always indeclinable. Since these

> gerundive forms (vandiyaa and vanditabbaa) are both in agreement

> with a noun (in nom. pl.) then one knows right away that they must

> be gerundives (verbal adjectives), not gerunds. The gerund form

> from the verb vandati is vanditvaa and it usu. means "having

> praised" and would generally take an object in the accusative.

>



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