Hi Yong Peng and Nina,

I've been away in India for the last month and away from email.

A future passive participle and a
gerundive (also called a gerundivium which is its Latin name) are the same thing - a "future passive participle" (another name for a gerundivium) which is a verbal adjective, with the meaning "to be [past
participle]" or "should be [past participle]", or "ought to be [past participle]."

In this case vandiyaa is a gerundive meaning "to be praised" ("ought to be praised" or "should be praised") modifying the Buddhaas; the Sanskrit equivalent is vandya ("to be praised"), so vandiyaa, with the extra epenthetic -i- must be an eastern form (which is
very common in Paali, e.g. ariya for ayya from Skt. arya.)

vanditabba is derived from Skt. vanditavya which also means to be praised and is also a future passive participle, gerundive, a verbal adjective modifying Tathaagataas.. In Skt. there are three principle endings which create a gerundive: -ya, -tavya and  -aniiya,, all added to the root in its gu.na grade. Paali also has more than one form as is apparent.

All gerundives are passive. Gerunds are usually active (but can also be passive), but are always indeclinable. Since these gerundive forms (vandiyaa and vanditabbaa) are both in agreement with a noun (in nom. pl.) then one knows right away that they must be gerundives (verbal adjectives), not gerunds.  The gerund form from the verb vandati is vanditvaa and it usu. means "having praised" and would generally take an object in the accusative.

Hope this helps,

Metta, Bryan



--- On Tue, 7/5/11,
Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

From: Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...>
Subject: Re: [Pali] The New Pali Course Part III [49/120] gerund and gerundive.
To:
Pali@yahoogroups.com
Received: Tuesday, July 5, 2011, 12:42 PM
















 









Dear Yong Peng,

A useful question.

Op 3-jul-2011, om 17:12 heeft Ong Yong Peng het volgende geschreven:

> YP: vandiya (PTS: gerundive of vandati) to be honoured.

> YP: vanditabba (future passive participle of vandati) should be

> honoured.

> YP: This is the first time I encounter a "gerundive" and a "future

> passive participle" of the same verb so close together. In Latin, a

> gerund is a verbal noun, while a gerundive is a verbal adjective.

> Can anyone explain if the same can be said of Pali.

--------

N: I looked up Warder lesson 8: a gerund (pubbakiriya) is an

indeclinable participle, expressing a action preceding the action of

the main verb. Agent of gerund is the same as agent of main action.

endings on -tvaa, itvaa, or ya.

We have met forms like: upasa.mkamitvaa, having approached... And

aadaaya, having taken.

Duroiselle, at end deals with Gerund, but not with gerundive.

But now we have here a gerundive, or in Latin: gerundivum, a form

with: must, or, to be: vandiya.

As you say, this is a verbal noun.

The difference between gerundive and gerund in Latin: I asked an

expert in the family and tell you as soon as he answers.

-------

Nina.



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