Dear John,



The translation you give is capable linguistically of being supported by the
structure of the sentence, but please talk us through what it actually means
to say that is 'possessed of its proximate cause'. To say that an effect
'possesses' its cause is (to me at least) something of a novel idea.



With metta,

James



From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] On Behalf Of
palistudent
Sent: 20 March 2011 01:22
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Pali] Re: upanisasampanna





Dear Jayarava and others,

I think it can be interpreted more like this:

"When, bhikkhus, there is mindfulness and clear comprehension, for one
endowed with mindfulness and clear comprehension, shame and moral dread are
possessed of their proximate cause."

The mindfulness and clear comprehension are the proximate cause for shame
and moral dread. The sutta then continues along the lines of, shame and
moral dread are then the proximate cause for restraint of the sense
faculties, and so on up to the knowledge and vision of liberation.

With metta,
John
--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> , "jayarava"
<jayarava@...> wrote:

>
> Could someone help me parse this sentence from AN 8.81?
>
> satisampaja~n~ne, bhikkhave, sati satisampaja~n~nasampannassa

upanisasampanna.m hoti hirottappa.m.

>
> Clearly there is locative absolute with sati/hoti "when there is

mindfulness and full attention there is shame and moral dread"

>
> The two compounds with -sampanna between sati and hoti are puzzling me.
>
> Thanks
> Jayarava
>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]