Thanks Mahinda

I appreciated you spelling out your reasoning. Thanks also Bryan. I find myself a bit swamped at the moment to take everything in, but I may come back to this question when I have a bit more time. I've nearly finished working through the Alagadduupama sutta now.

Best Wishes
Jayarava

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Mahinda Palihawadana <mahipal6@...> wrote:
>
> On Fri, Oct 29, 2010 at 5:41 PM, Bryan Levman <bryan.levman@...>wrote:
>
> >
> >
> > Dear Mahinda,
> >
> > Thanks for your take on this. I am most interested in how you view that
> > "atta"
> > in ".thita-atta" and samk.n.na-atta". Please see discussion below.
> >
> > My translation(s) of this passage is as follows. I would appreciate your
> > comments as per my note to Jayarava below. My question is how do you take
> > .thitatta and sa.mki.n.natta and viki.n.natta? as nominative singular
> > compounds?
> > or ablative abstract nouns?
> >
>
> Dear Bryan,
> Let me try to explain why I translated the way I did. It will show you how
> I understand these three forms.
>
>
> *Eva.m laddhanamaana.m* should mean "that have got such designation",
> i.e., which are designated *ponobbhavika*. So the first two sentences mean
> that rebirth aggregates are are called *ponobbhavika* , because birth and
> (samsaric) wandering are due to them; and they in turn are caused by the
> accumulation of karma (or the force of karma). The Pali word `*so'* in the
> next sentence refers to *kammaabhisa"nkaaro*. (both words being masc. nom.
> Sg). It says that karmic force is called *parikkhaa*. The commentator
> justifies this statement of his through a typical "commentarial etymology" :
> "*punappuna.m uppatti-kara.na-vasena parikkhipitvaa .thitattaa parikkhaa*" .
> This can only mean "it is called *parikkhaa* because it stands encircling
> by way of causing repeated births". Here *.thitattaa* is ablative singular
> from the abstract noun .*thitatta* (=*sthitatva* in Skt).
>
> In the last sentence the word *esa* seems to refer to the Arahant. And *
> tena* means "by him". *Tassaa* is genitive singular feminine and obviously
> refers to *parikkhaa *(which the commentator just explained as signifying
> karmic force that is responsible for rebirth). Thus the meaning of this last
> sentence is "Due to the fact of its dispersal/ scattering, by him, he (the
> Arahant) is called "*sa.mki.n.n-parikkho*". Here too *sa.mki.n.nattaa* and *
> viki.n.nattaa* (=*sa.mkiir.natvaat/ vikiir.natvaat *in Skt) are abstract
> nouns in ablative singular form.
>
>
> The use of such* bhaava-naama* (abstract noun) forms is fairly common in
> Pali commentaries. The fact that PED cites a few instances of words ending
> in -*atta* derived from *attan*/*aatman* does not mean that all forms
> having that ending have to be *bahubbiihi* nouns with last word in the sense
> of self.
>
> Best wishes.
>
>
> Mahinda
>
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