You've got a good point there, Frank. Yes, I must say I was conditioned by much of what you listed. When I said "with enough of wrong ideas", it's not just about the meaning of those terms, but including much of what you said too.
Anyway, I think I've come to understand those calls for urgency better. They are basically saying, "Don't be lazy." They don't mean, "Push yourself harder!" I think we need to consider them in the right context.
In Burma (at least in the Mahasi tradition), there's often a lot of push for more effort. One teacher I was practicing with frankly said that he didn't believe that people can put in too much effort. He wasn't being pushy. He was just expressing what he genuinely believe. I've later realise that Burmese people (esp. those in the rural area) tend to be very lax in attitude. So, it's reasonable for the teacher to urge them to work harder.
As for people in cultures that are already well conditioned to be work hard and fast, the same kind of advice leads them off balance.
A wise sense of urgency is fine. There's no pressure in it. Just being clear of your direction and being on the move towards that. Being in a hurry though sets you off balanced.
kb
frank wrote thus at 00:30 04/10/2010:
> Dear Ven. Kumara,
> Here's a thought experiment. If 15 years ago you had been taught that
>samadhi meant composure (rather than concentration), how would that
>have affected your meditation practice? For myself, it wouldn't have
>made a difference. From reading the collection of pali suttas, the
>impression of the practice of the noble 8fold path is one that is
>intense and concentrated. Just some examples, "practice jhanas, don't be
>heedless and regret it later", "practice as if hair is on fair", "rouse
>yourself! what use is sleep? Don't let the king of death take you
>down...", "Let my flesh, sinews, and blood dry up, I will not move from
>my seated posture until I attain whatever can be won with manly
>strength, manly determination, manly energy!". Consider the typical
>recommended sleep schedule for Budha's disciples was only 4 hours
>[Anguttara 3.16] 10pm - 2am, with the 4 hours before that period used
>for walking/sitting meditation, and the 4 hours from 2am-6am also for
>walking/sitting. Also consider the sutta to Sariputta on how to fight
>drowsiness. There are far more passages warning against laxity and
>laziness than passages warning against practicing too intensely.
> I do feel that you have a legitimate gripe against samadhi being
>defined as "concentration", I'm just pointing out that when we read the
>collection of pali suttas, it's pretty hard to avoid the impression
>that the samadhi portion (right mindfulness, right effort, right
>concentration) of the noble 8fold path is a very intense. In my own
>practice, since I do quite a bit of taiji (Tai Chi) perhaps that had a
>big influence on my own understanding of intensity, persistence,
>concentration, and deep active relaxation not being mutually exclusive.
>Also the beautiful similes for the 4 jhanas, and the first item
>mentioned as one of the purposes of practicing jhanas is, "for pleasant
>abiding here and now" is very suggestive of the peaceful relaxing nature
>of right "concentration".
>
>-Frank
>
>
>
>
>> \
>> Dear friends,
>>
>> In the past, I was told that samadhi means concentration, and samatha
>> means
>> concentration too. (I did think that it was odd, but I knew nuts
>> then.) Closely
>> related is ekaggata, which I was told means one-pointedness.
>>
>> That's about 15 years ago, when I started to practice meditation. I
>> practiced
>> hard thenhard enough with enough of wrong ideas to end up being
>> uptight, groggy
>> and oftentimes both. It took a nervous disorder during a meditation
>> retreat to
>> seriously doubt the way I was practicing.
>>
>> I'm fortunate that I later met Sayadaw U Tejaniya who helped me
>> immensely to get
>> on the right path'right' as in moving out of suffering, rather than
>> into more
>> suffering as I had been experiencing earlier.
>>
>> With this liberating practice, I found that some of my past
>> understanding of the
>> Buddha's teachings seem to be grossly wrong. With some knowledge of
>> Pali, guided
>> by Venerable Aggacitta, and some phenomenological research, I've
>> decided on
>> these English translations of some Pali words:
>>
>> samadhi composure
>> samatha settling
>> ekodibhava unified
>> ekagga collected
>> ekaggata collectedness
>>
>> These meanings of the Pali words agrees with the right path for me. I
>> invite you
>> to consider them in the light of your own practice. Bear in mind
>> though that
>> right meditation involves other factors, such as . These roughly
>> covers only one
>> aspect of it.
>>
>> I'm not against the use of "concentration" in spiritual or meditation
>> practice.
>> It's just a word. My understanding of it didn't work for me. I've just
>> checked a
>> dictionary and found the meaning of it that I had: complete attention;
>> intense
>> mental effort. Synonyms of it are absorption, engrossment, immersion.
>> Yes,
>> that's it. Looking at it from my present point of view, I'm thinking:
>> No wonder
>> I ended up groggy and uptight.
>>
>> peace
>>
>> Kumâra Bhikkhu
>>
>
>
>
>[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
>
>
>
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