Hi Jim,

> << Akusala~nca hida.m, bhikkhave, pahiina.m ahitaaya dukkhaaya
> sa.mvatteyya naaha.m eva.m vadeyya.m - 'akusala.m, bhikkhave,
> pajahathaa'ti. >>
>
> << If, verily, this unwholesome(ness), o monks, which was given up
> (pahīnam)
> would conduce to suffering and harmfulness then I would not say thus: "Give
>
> up the unwholesome". >>
>
> Take "If, verily, this unwholesome(ness). . . would conduce to suffering
> and
> harmfulness. . ."
>
> Here, "unwholesome(ness)" in the above translation is the subject of the
> verb "would conduce" (sa.mvatteyya) which is not logical considering that
> it
> was given up but it would make good sense if the subject were, instead,
> "akusalassa pahaana.m" --- if the giving up of the unwholesome would
> conduce
> to suffering, etc. One also has to wonder how the given-up unwholesomeness
> per se could conduce to anything since it no longer exists.
>

Oh, now I got your point!

This is how I understood it first:

pahiinam. as a ppp is used here as an adjective to describe the akusalam. So
it's just another way of saying the same thing...but instead of your
suggested akusalassa pahanam. which makes absolute sense, here in the text
we have a peculiar way of expressing the same idea but making use of the ppp
adjectively which I would put into a subordinate clause: "if the
unwholesome, which was given up (i.e. "removed", "of which we got rid") ...
would lead to pain and harmfulness, then I would not say thus: "Give it
up"....I admit, the little pahiinam. in this case almost sounds as if it
would best be put into a subordinate clause by itself and the past
participle would actually allow for such a translation.

But of course, you are right, you would rather say: "if the giving up of
unwholesomeness would lead to suffering...I would not recommend giving it
up". It maybe simply is a colloquial expression in Pali to formulate it in
such a pecular way as to say, like the Buddha did: "if unwholesomeness,
after having been given up, would lead to suffering, then I would not
recommend such a step, that is to stop implementing unwholesome things". Yes
logically it sounds strange, but it probably just means "void of
unwholesomeness"... Maybe Oscar von Hinueber has something to say about this
usage of pahiinam. or the ppp in general. He wrote this great Pali Syntax
book which unfortunately I have no access to right now.


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