Dear Nina and friends,

thanks again.

I have another look at the Pali passage and noted an interesting pattern. The passage is made up of two parts, each containing six sentences. The last four sentences of the first part look like this:

[1] No ceda.m, bhikkhave.....
[2] Yasmaa ca kho, bhikkhave.....
[3] Akusala~nca hida.m, bhikkhave.....
[4] Yasmaa ca kho, bhikkhave.....

I notice that the 'ca' in the last three sentences are linking these four sentences together, but I think there is a special pattern involves:

([1] and [2]) AND ([3] and [4])

So, [1] and [2] are linked and formed a set of two sentences.

Similarly, [3] and [4] are linked and formed another set of two sentences.

Finally, [1&2] is linked with [3&4] to form a superset of two sentences.

Therefore, I am deducing that the 'if' in our English for sentence [3] is related to 'ce' in sentence [1]. I am not sure if this is a reasonable assumption for Pali language. Any comments is welcome.

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Nina van Gorkom wrote:

> Y.P.:Akusala~nca hida.m, bhikkhave, pahiina.m ahitaaya dukkhaaya
> sa.mvatteyya naaha.m eva.m vadeyya.m - 'akusala.m, bhikkhave,
> pajahathaa'ti.
> And, surely (if) this abandoned unwholesome conduct, O monks,
> would lead to harm, to suffering, I would not say thus - 'O monks,
> abandon unwholesome conduct.'
>
> Can I say that 'if', as given in the English sentence, is implied
> by the Optative Attanopada 1st person singular 'vadeyya.m' in the
> Pali?

N: I would say: the if is implied by the optative sa.mvatteyya. For the flow of the English I would add 'if'.
Also literally it is: this abandoned unwholesome conduct, but I would translate as PTS: if this abandoning of unwholesome conduct, O monks, would lead to harm, ....