Thanks very much Nina for taking the time to explain this,
Metta, Bryan
________________________________
From: Nina van Gorkom <
vangorko@...>
To:
Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Mon, March 22, 2010 5:33:12 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Q. Abhidhamma Series, no 4.
Dear Bryan,
Op 21-mrt-2010, om 20:40 heeft Bryan Levman het volgende geschreven:
> Citta, cetasika and ruupa are the three conditioned paramattha
> >dhammas. They have the three general characteristics of impermanence,
> >dukkhaa and anattaa. Conventional truth does not have these three
> >general characteristics.
>
> Thanks for the explanation. I assume this is from the Abhidhamma,
> not the suttas?
-------
N: There is Abhidhamma also in the suttas. The same dhammas as
classified by way of the three conditioned paramattha dhammas can be
classified as five khandhas and the suttas deal with the
classification of dhammas by way of the five khandhas.
What is classified as khandha arises because of conditions and falls
away again. The five
khandhas are not different from the three paramattha dhammas which
are citta, cetasika and rúpa. Realities can be classified in many
different ways and thus different names are given to them.
One khandha is ruupakkhandha and the other four khandhas are
naamakkhandhas. Three naamakkhandhas are cetasika and one
naamakkhandha is citta, vi~n~naa.nakkhandha .
Anything which is khandha does not last; as soon as it has arisen it
falls away again. Although khandhas arise and fall away, they are
real; we can experience them when they present themselves.
---------
Samyutta Nikaaya III is a whole book dealing with the five khandhas.
------
In the satipa.t.thaanasutt a, under the application of mindfulness of
citta, citta with lobha, without lobha, etc. are dealt with. This is
another example of Abhidhamma in the suttas, citta is a paramattha
dhamma.
Also in the suttas the difference between conventional use of 'I',
and ultimate realities is mentioned. In the Kindred Sayings I, the
Devas, III, a Sword 25 (5), translated by Ven. Bodhi in the Connected
Discourses of the Buddha, we read that someone asks whether an arahat
can still speak of "I' and 'they', and that the Buddha answered:
<If a bhikkhu is an arahant,
Consummate, with taints destroyed,
One who bears his final body,
He might still say, 'I speak',
And he might say, knowing the world's parlance,
He uses such terms as mere expressions. ">
Thus, there is a distinction between ultimate truth and conventional
truth.
--------
B:I thought that all phenomena, including conventional had the three
characteristics of anicca, dukkha and anatta? Surely a person has
these characteristics? Please explain,
-------
N: We can see that a person ages, that is body does not last. But
this is thinking in conventional sense, it is different from direct
understanding of momentary impermanence of realities. We say in
conventional sense: a person has consciousness, but in the absolute
sense there is not any consciousness, citta, that lasts. At one
moment seeing-consciousnes s arises, and it falls away in
splitseconds. At another moment hearing-consciousne ss arises, and it
falls away in splitseconds. Only developed pa~n~naa can realize that
mental phenomena and physical phenomena are very momentary, that they
have the characteristic of impermanence.
We think of the whole of a body, but in reality there are many
different kinds of ruupas that arise and fall away, that are
impermanent.
A person is a concept of a 'whole', it is not real in the ultimate
sense, but we can think of a person; in fact we do, the whole day.
What we call a person are many different elements: naama-elements and
ruupa-elements arising and falling away. These momentary elements are
real in the ultimate sense, they are impermanent, dukkha and anattaa.
Appreciating your questions, they are good points for all of us to
consider.
------
Nina.
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