Dear Bankei,

I believe this discussion requires some understanding of the socio-cultural settings of Buddha's days, and the development of the Sangha (and the Vinaya) under the direct ministry of the Buddha.

Again, I have to admit little knowledge of the Vinaya. So, I do not expect an "explosive" discussion, and I suppose there are good articles, books, etc. that we can share with each other on various views and opinions.

Accepting female monastics was something very bold or revolutionary of the Buddha, and none of his contemporaries is known to have done the same. In fact, in those days, even certain men were denied rights to worship, let alone women. So, for the Buddha to accept female disciples into his order was breaking one big taboo of the ancient Indian society.

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Bankei wrote:

I think this has to be a case of gender bias, as it is making one gender subordinate to the other gender. These rules on apply to women who already had many vinaya rules more than the men.

> However, we are also aware of the eight garudhamma rules, which somehow place the bhikkhunis on a "lower tier" than their male counterparts. Is this a special case of a gender bias?