Hi Frank,

>>Is Maha-brahma the same as Brahma Sahampati?

I will think Maha-brahma is Brahma Baka, not Brahma Sahampati. This is because Brahma Baka in the Brahma Samyutta considers himself as immortal and his world is permanent. But Brahma Sahampati does not say so; he in the Brahma Samyutta shows him as a supporter of the Buddha and of his teachings. Also, Maha-brahma is more like a title, than a name of a Brahma.

Any advice?

Thomas Law

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:
>
> Thanks Piya, that's the one. I re-read that section just now,
> interesting that the visiting monk has no name, as well as the
> Maha-brahma. Is Maha-brahma the same as Brahma Sahampati? The chain of
> devas mentioned included
> Sakka,
>
> "The Yama gods said, 'We also don't know...
>
> "Suyama said, 'I also don't know...
>
> "Santusita said, 'I also don't know...
>
> "The Nimmanarati gods said, 'We also don't know...
>
> "Sunimmita said, 'I also don't know...
>
> "The Paranimmitavasavatti gods said, 'We also don't know...
>
> "So the monk approached the god Vasavatti ....
> then maha-brahma.
>
> No mention is made of Brahma sahampati. Is he part of the retinue of
> maha-brahma, or is he in fact one and the same as maha-brahma?
>
> [D. 11] thanissaro version, relevant section is near end
> http://www.accesstoinsight.org/tipitaka/dn/dn.11.0.than.html
>
> - Frank
>
> p.s. interesting note, we almost have a harmonic convergence of all the
> pali threads from the past week colliding in one message from seemingly
> unrelated origins. All I need to do to make it happen is ask, "How do
> you pronounce Brahma sahampati in Finnish?" :)
>
>
> On 2/14/2010 4:56 PM, Piya Tan wrote:
> > Dear Frank,
> >
> > You must be thinking of the Keva.d.dha (or Keva.t.ta) Sutta (D 11 = SD 1.7),
> > which will be appearing in SD 1, probably out in March.
> >
> > A very humourous sutta, but with profound teachings.
> >
> > With metta,
> >
> > Piya
> >
> > On Mon, Feb 15, 2010 at 1:56 AM, frank<fcckuan@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> >>
> >>
> >> There's another sutta I'm thinking of relevant to the preacher's
> >> question, but it turns the question and answer back on him. I believe
> >> it occurs in Samyutta first or second sections (Devas and devatas).
> >> I browsed through access to insight's selections on those sections and
> >> didn't see the sutta I'm thinking of.
> >>
> >> It's the sutta that goes something like this:
> >>
> >> One of the Buddha's disciples, I don't think it was Mogollana, but a
> >> disciple who did have the ability to travel to any deva realm.
> >> He tracked down the highest ranking god/brahma, and asked him a tough
> >> question, something like, "Is there a place where the four elements have
> >> no footing, where light and consciousness have no place to land?" Brahma
> >> repsonded with something like, "I am Brahma, the almighty, all powerful.
> >> There is nothing that is not within my domain of knowing."
> >> Yet he didn't answer the disciple's question.
> >> Brahma then did some kind of evasive maneuver, trying to hide in a
> >> higher brahma realm or realm of higher meditative attainment, but this
> >> was a powerful disciple and for a second time and a third time he
> >> tracked him down to ask the question, "is there a place where the 4
> >> elements...". And for the 2nd and 3rd time, Brahma responded the same way.
> >>
> >> The disciple, frustrated, said, "Look here Brahma, I asked you this
> >> question and you keep giving me this weak evasive response without
> >> answering. What's up with that?"
> >>
> >> Brahma replies: " Hey man, you made me look bad in front of my guys, the
> >> other Brahmas and devas who look up to me by asking me a question I
> >> don't know the answer to. Why you hassling me in the first place, when
> >> you're a disciple of the Buddha, the all knowing one? He can answer your
> >> question." The disciple asks the Buddha, who of course answers it.
> >>
> >> I just pulled out the CDOB and flipped quickly through the first
> >> sections, didn't see it. Maybe the sutta I'm thinking of is in Digha or
> >> Majjhima?
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >>
> >
> >
> >
>