Dear Frank,

My monastic training was Thai at Wat Srakes (Bangkok), a monastery well
known for its Pali. Muy understanding is that there is a glottal stop at the
intial of the double consonants. In Thai, there are only a few stops
following the Mae Kod rule, that is,

Mae Kod: endings of t th .t .th d dh .d .dh s 's .s (the last 2 are
Sanskrit) all have a d sound.
(Traditional Thai speakers may pronounce "cast" and "cud" sounding the same
to us.

Mae Kob: endings of b bh p ph

Mae Kon: endings of n r l all have an n sound.
(Traditional Thai speakers may pronounce "call" and "corn" sounding the
same to our ear.

Mae Kom: ending with m (only one).
There is more, but basically this gives some idea of ending sounds.

With metta,

Piya Tan

On Sun, Feb 14, 2010 at 2:47 PM, Anton Bjerke <anton_bjerke@...> wrote:

> Dear Frank,
>
> Whithout basically any knowledge of Pali whatsover, I think that your
> guess that the variation has arised due to (Thai or other) accent is
> absolutely true. The Pali recordings I've heard (to the extent that I
> can judge phonetically) show great regional variation, which seems very
> logical, since there really are very many different peoples using Pali.
> So my guess is that the phonemes /j, jh/ do not have any "etymological"
> alternations (allophons), but only regional. Also the IPA transcription
> on the audio site linked to uses the sign for a voiced palatal stop (a
> kind of j-like d), not an affricate (like twice in English <judge>).
> By the way, if I haven't introduced myself earlier, I'm a Phd-student of
> Helsinki University (Altaic linguistics), with an interest in Buddhist
> thought and language in a broad sense.
>
> Best wishes,
> Anton Bjerke
>
>
> frank skrev:
> >
> > Thanks for the comments, Patrick and Bryan.
> > As a beginner,
> >
> > I'm looking for consistent simple rules I can rely in, and it sure was
> > confusing to hear so many different sounds made with "jj" depending on
> > the context.
> > for reference:
> >
> http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/audio_alpha?page=1&op0=starts&filter0=v%C4%ABriya
> > <
> http://studies.worldtipitaka.org/audio_alpha?page=1&op0=starts&filter0=v%C4%ABriya
> >
> >
> >
> > is it 4 different contexts? The four words in question all are just
> > slight variations of "viriyasambojjang", but the jj sounds vary .
> >
> > I still don't know the answer to whether the "jj" sound in those 4 words
> > supposed to all sound the same, or slightly different because there's a
> > context that's too subtle for a beginner to see? Is the variation due to
> > a Thai accent in the speaker?
> > Apologies to Bryan if your post explained the answer but I was unable to
> > comprehend it. I assumed Bryan's explanation referred to words that
> > varied more radically than very minor variations of "viryasambojjhanga"
> >
> > -Frank
> >
> >
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> >
>
>
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