Venerable Bikkhu Kum�ra,

your question is useful. I also have found the distinction difficult.
I consulted a conversation in Thailand with Ajahn Sujin rendered in
another list. Perhaps this may help.
Op 12-nov-2009, om 11:02 heeft Kum�ra Bhikkhu het volgende geschreven:

> It's sometimes quite a challenge to translate compounds. In this
> case, it's 'pa~ncupaadaanakkhandhaa', which is translated below
> (and many other places) as 'five aggregates of clinging'. I
> remember reading it for the first time when I was very much a
> beginner. Couldn't understand it. Immediately the mind decided that
> it's beyond it's comprehension then and went on. Now looking at it
> again, in itself, it still pretty much the same. What does it mean
> to an ordinary reader?
> * 5 clinging aggregates (which doesn't really help!)
> * 5 aggregates that clings (doh!)
> Assuming it's tappurisa, let me play around a little further
> * 5 aggregates with clinging
> * 5 aggregates for clinging (I know, I know. Just brainstorming.)
> * 5 aggregates in clinging
> * 5 aggregates' clinging
> * 5 aggregates due to clinging
> * 5 aggregates from clinging

------------
N: Conversation in Thailand:
A question is asked (by Rob K) about why the pa~ncupaadaanakkhandhaa are
given in the description of the 1st Noble Truth, rather than
pa~ncakkhandhaa

A.Sujin stresses that not only lokuttara citta, but any khandha which is
not the object of upadana is only included in khandha. �Any, any, any�
dhamma which is not the object of upadana now is only included in
khandha.
[She refers to the Sammohavinodani].

There�s a question again about the difference between khandha and
upadana
khandha and again the comment that the difference depends on whether
it is
the object of upadana or not at this moment. Now there are 5 khandhas
rising and falling away and the ones which are not object of upadana are
panca khandha. The one which is the object of upadana is upadana
khandha.

She asks: �How can the panca khandha which are not the object of
clinging
be upadana khandha?� Khandha means the reality which arises and falls
away
in the past, present or future. This is the meaning of khandha, but the
one which is the object of upadana is upadana khandha, the object of
clinging.
--------
N: So I understand that it depends on the moment of clinging whether
a khandha is upadaanakkhandha. I understand better now the connection
of upadaanakkhandha with the Truth of dukkha. The origin of dukkha is
tanhaa. It is actually clinging at this moment, and there can be
clinging to the nama and rupa included in the five khandhas.

Ven. Bodhi quotes from the co to the S.N. Khandhavagga, 57, Seven Cases:
From the commentary note which B.Bodhi quotes on p.1059 of SN:

�Spk:...�With taints (saasava) means: what becomes a condition for the
taints by way of object; so too �that can be clung to (upaadaaniya)
means
what becomes a condition for clinging [Spk-p.t: by being made its
object].
Among the aggregates subject to clinging, stated by way of the
practice of
insight, the form aggregate is sense sphere, the others pertain to the
three planes (i.e, excluding only the supramundane.)�<

------
There is still another aspect:
Some ruupas of the body are produced by kamma (some by citta, by
temperature and nutrition, for example the senses. These are called
upaadaaniya. : Upaadi.n.na-(ka) ruupa
(clung-to matter) = kammaja-ruupa (kamma-born matter); see Dhs #653.

Thus, clung to refers to the khandhas that are clung to at this
moment, and to those ruupas produced by kamma.
--------
respectfully,
Nina.




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