Dear Ardavarz & friends,

Apparently k.shatriya is related to satrap, satrapy, etc, a term used in the
Indo-Greek kingdoms of NW India.

I'm not sure of the details.

With metta,

Piya

On Sun, Nov 1, 2009 at 8:43 AM, ardavarz <ardavarz@...> wrote:

>
>
>
> Just a note:
>
> "Khattiya (better translated by "knights" than by "warrior" perhaps)"
>
> Khattiya = in Sanskrit Kshatriya - is literally "ruler" or "governor".
> Etymologically it is from the verb root kshi - "to possess, to have power
> over, rule, govern, be master of" - plus suffix t.r designating the "doer"
> of something. (It could be also from ksha - "field" and tra - "protecting"
> i.e. "protector of the land".)
>
> Here is an interesting excerpt from the Monier-Williams' Dictionary - the
> entry for "kshatra" ("dominion, power"):
>
> "- the military or reigning order (the members of which in the earliest
> times , as represented by the Vedic hymns , were generally called Raajanya ,
> not Kshatriya.
> - afterwards , when the difference between Brahman and Kshatra or the
> priestly and civil authorities became more distinct , applied to the second
> or reigning or military caste) VS. AV. TS. &c.
> - a member of the military or second order or caste , warrior Mn. MBh. &c.
> (fancifully derived fr. k.shataat tra fr. root trai i.e. "a preserver from
> injury "' Ragh. ii , 53)".
>
> There is a theory that originally the casts were not hereditary social
> groups but a designation of people with different psycho-somatic
> predispositions fit for one or another kind of job. (The word for "cast" is
> var.na (in Pali - va.n.na) - literally "colour" or metaphorically
> "quality".)
>
> Why the Buddha has said that the Khattiyas are the best should probably be
> deduced from the context. I think that the casts are neither denied (as it
> is usually maintained) nor approved by the Buddhism because they are
> irrelevant to the liberation. Buddhism is not concern with the casts, social
> contradictions etc. but with the elimination of suffering which is the same
> for all beings. This is a revolution in the psyche, not in society (society
> just doesn't matter).
>
> Metta,
> Ardavarz
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, Jacques Huynen
> <jhuynen@...> wrote:
> >
> > Hello everyone,
> > �
> > The last sloka of the Cakkavatti Sutta (32) does indeed states that "in
> terms of birth or caste the Khattiya are best". But what does it mean in the
> social and anthropological context of the time? � According to some, among
> which DD. Kosambi (Culture and Civilisation of Ancient India) at the time of
> the Buddha, the brahmins were barely beginning trying to assert their
> superiority and impose their moral dominance on Indian (Aryan) society. They
> were of course opposed by many non-brahmin groups,� non -Aryan and even
> Aryan, among which the Khattiya (better translated by "knights" than by
> "warrior" perhaps) who had to that point been dominant. The Cakkavatti Sutta
> also notes the "egalitarian ethos" of the Khattiya : among them the best
> (strongest but also most clever) is elected as the leader or King (
> mahasamata or Great Elected). The Khattiya at that time may have been not
> only more equalitarian but also, as a caste, more porous. Some even wondered
> if the
> > Sakyas, the clan of the Buddha, had not been first� of some aboriginal,
> non-Aryan� stock (cf EJ.Thomas, Life of Buddha, Legend and
> History).� Belonging to the Khattiya was perhaps at the time not only and
> necessarily the result of� birth but of a moral might� gotten from merit,
> strenght, courage, intelligence. It is also � possible that the contemporary
> kings of the janapadas making up India at the time, and the kings of Magadha
> later, all Khattiyas, though perhaps sincere in their allegiance to the
> Buddha, also thought his doctrine� politically opportune in fending off
> Brahmines' pretensions.�
> > �
>
> > What matters is that for the Khattiya, as for the Buddha, one of them,
> dominance is not inherited but obtained through merit.
> > �
> > With Metta
> > �
> > J. Huynen
> > �
> > �
> >
> > --- On Thu, 10/29/09, frank <fcckuan@...> wrote:
> >
> >
> > From: frank <fcckuan@...>
> > Subject: why warrior is the best clan RE: SV: [Pali] Re: Buddhist
> Imprimatur?
> > To: Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> > Date: Thursday, October 29, 2009, 5:22 PM
> >
> >
> > �
> >
> >
> >
> >
> >
> > _____
> >
> > From: Pali@... com [mailto:Pali@... com] On Behalf Of
> Kum��ra
> > Bhikkhu.
> > [snip]
> > Hmm.... never thought of that before. I wonder if elements of that could
> > have infiltrated into the suttas. I personally find it odd that in one
> sutta
> > the Buddha claims that the khattiya/Kshatriya is the best of all clans.
> >
> > Greetings Venerable Kumara,
> >
> > I heard a talk from a monk last year that explained this in a way that
> made
> > a great deal of sense to me. I will relate what I heard but be warned it
> is
> > embellished with many of my own opinions which may be completely
> erroneous.
> >
> > If the Buddha is enlightened, by definition they are beyond identifying
> with
> > any clan, political affiliation, class, race, country, etc. Nor would
> they
> > praise warriors for killing their enemies. The only killing that
> enlightened
> > beings endorse are the metaphorical ���killing�� of one���s own delusions
> and
> > defilements (one sutta the Buddha praised the killing of anger for
> example).
> > The Buddha proclaimed the warrior class as the best (as opposed to
> Brahmins
> > or other castes) because the warrior is trained and accustomed to dealing
> > with extreme adversity and finding a way to overcome whatever obstacles
> and
> > difficulties that arise. For context, consider all the difficulties that
> > arise in meditation. The hindrances, boredom, agitation from facing the
> > demons of one���s mind would lead to excuses by most castes (including
> > Brahmins) to stop meditating. In stark contrast, the warrior sits as long
> as
> > it takes, enduring physical pain, mental agony, patiently fighting
> through
> > it all until they triumph and attain whatever can be attained by manly
> > strength, manly energy. Perhaps the Buddha saw some of the Brahmins in
> his
> > day who were intellectually gifted and could give brilliant sermons and
> > debate with impressive flair and confidence, but did not have the
> > attainments to back up the talk, whereas the warrior didn���t waste time
> > talking and would just get things done that needed to be done. It makes
> > complete sense to me why the Buddha praised certain qualities of the
> > warrior. The dedication required to steadfastly adhere to the 4
> foundations
> > of mindfulness at all times, it takes a warrior spirit. In the suttas,
> you
> > can see the monks never give in to sleep without a fight. When they
> engage
> > in activities such as eating which is perilously close to the 5 cords of
> > sensual pleasure, with the warrior spirit they vigilantly guard every
> moment
> > against delighting in taste and hankering for the continuation of
> > stimulating taste, knowing that failure to do so leads to their
> defilements
> > exponentially increasing and compounding over time like credit card debt
> > that quickly compounds and spirals into bankruptcy. The factor of right
> > effort, persistence, energy, expressed by the pali word Viriya, has the
> root
> > meaning ���hero�� or ���warrior�� . The pali word Tapas(?) which
> frequently is
> > translated as ���ardent�� , occurring frequently in the 4 foundations of
> > mindfulness sutta, also brings to mind the heroic effort required to
> > maintain mindfulness. One commentator wrote that ���ardent�� was too mild
> of a
> > translation, that failed to capture the power behind the word. The
> > Visuddhimagga I believe used the simile of Tapas being like the intense
> heat
> > of the sun (mindfulness) that can incinerate all defilements. Such is the
> > extraordinary power of mindfulness done with heroic warrior spirit.
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
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> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>



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