On Mon, May 4, 2009 at 8:13 PM, Ong Yong Peng <palismith@...> wrote:

>
>
> Dear Jim,
>
> thank you. I shall try again some of the sentences.
>
> Dear OYP,
>

I suggest below a somewhat different approach to the passage you have been
translating.




Eva.m taava dhaatusaddassattho veditabbo:



Dhaatusaddo jinamate, itthili`ngattane mato;

Satthe pulli`ngabhaavasmi.m, kaccaayanamate dvisu.



Atha vaa jinamate "tato gotami dhaatuunii"ti ettha dhaatusaddo

li`ngavipallaase vattati , "pabbataani vanaani caa"ti ettha

pabbatasaddo viya. na panettha vattabba.m "a.t.thivaacakattaa

napu.msakaniddeso"ti , a.t.thivaacakattepi "dhaatuyo"ti
itthili`ngadassanato.

Translation:

Thus should be understood the meaning of the word DHAATU.

(There is) the word DHAATU according to the view ( i.e., the usage) of the
Buddha. According to my view it is (a word) of the feminine gender. In the
science (of grammar , i.e., as a grammatical term) (it is) in the masculine
gender. According to Kaccaayana (it is) in both (genders).

Or (to explain further): According to the Buddha�s view (or usage as found )
in (the expression) �Tato Gotami dhaatuuni� ( Hence, O Gotami, the relics),
the word DHAATU occurs with gender-change. (i.e., it is not the regular
usage). It is like the word PABBATANI in (the Dhammapada line) �Pabbataani
vanaani ca�. (The normal or regular usage is PABBATAA not PABBATAANI). (In
rebuttal) it should not be said that the neuter indication (here) is due to
the the refererence being to bones, (i.e., bones/relics being �things�, the
neuter gender is legitimate). (Why?) because the (word is) seen in the
feminine gender, even when referring to bones, as in (the common plural
form) DHAATUYO.

Notes:

The first sentence forms the end of the previous para which dealt with the
derivation of DHAATU.

The second sentence is a terse statement in stanza form. I venture to think
that the text is corrupt here. It is likely to be �itthiling(o)'attano
mate�. The word �itthilingo� would go with �dhaatusaddo� , the initial word
of the stanza. Aggavamsa seems to hold the view that the given canonical
usage DHATUUNI is an instance of �linga-vipallaaasa� or alteration of
gender, a grammatical irregularity we have to accept due to its exalted
provenance! His own idea is that in common parlance it should be in the
feminine form (Nom. Pl. DHAATUYO).. As a grammatical term meaning verbal
root it is masculine (Nom. Pl. DHAATAVO). The grammarian Kaccaayana regards
, according to this passage, that the neuter and feminine forms are both
correct. The statement �It should not be said�� is a common way in
scholastic texts of responding to an opposite viewpoint to one�s own
opinion.

I may be wrong on some or even on many points. But I think this is at least
a plausible interpretation. Let's see what the others think about it.

Regards.

Mahinda

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