Attention: Kumara Bhikkhu
 
KB: "I understand, assuming you mean "bhagavato savakasangho" as in the stock phrase definition of sangha in the suttas. For orthodox Theravada though, this would be meaningless to say, as it holds the view that magga and phala are two adjacent thought moments.

If anyone can find in the suttas where "ariya" means any among the "4 pairs of persons", please let me know."
 
DGDCW: I agree with you, re. first para. My understanding is that Theravaada is also yet another vaada. And therefore is not DHAMMA of the 'bhagavaa araha.m sammaasambuddho'.
 
Basically ariya is an adjective having a sense of higher and the applicable meaning has to be derived from the context. The technical meaning of ariyasaavaka is one who is following the ariya.t.tha"ngikomaggo--aryan eightfoldpath. Pa.tipannasutta of SN 5.201 could provide an answer to your question. If the PTS edition is not available, have a look at Bhikkhu Bodhi's translation of the Sutta "Practising" (Vol II p. 1675).

Hope this will help you.

Metta,
 D. G. D. C. Wijeratna




________________________________
From: Kumara Bhikkhu <yg@...>
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Wednesday, April 22, 2009 9:54:32 AM
Subject: Re: [Pali] Ariya





I understand, assuming you mean "bhagavato savakasangho" as in the stock phrase definition of sangha in the suttas. For orthodox Theravada though, this would be meaningless to say, as it holds the view that magga and phala are two adjacent thought moments.

If anyone can find in the suttas where "ariya" means any among the "4 pairs of persons", please let me know.

kb

DC Wijeratna wrote thus at 09:08 PM 02-04-09:

>Ariya also includes sotaapattiphalasacc hikiriyaayapa. tipanno also.
> D. G. D. C. Wijeratna
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>___________ _________ _________ ___
>From: Kumara Bhikkhu <yg@.... net>
>To: Pali@... com
>Sent: Wednesday, April 1, 2009 11:28:53 AM
>Subject: Re: [Pali] Ariya
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>DC Wijeratna wrote thus at 09:48 PM 17-03-09:
>>My understanding of ariya is as follows: Beings in this world consist of ariyas and puthujjanas. Puthujjana is what is usually translated as worldlings, mere-worldlings, common-man etc. In the Mulapariyaaya sutta, MN 1 1. the world is dividied into puthujjana, sekha, asekha and the Sammaasambuddha. So ariyans include, the last three categories.
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>Yes, and since the word ariyan (or ariya) is not mentioned here (or any other suttas AFIAK) to mean those 3 categories, yet "Late Buddhism" uses it so, I think we may consider that when we see the word 'ariya' in the suttas, we need not assume that it refers to enlightened people, i.e, at least a sotapanna. (Words do evolve in meaning, e.g., peta, vihara.)
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>So, we need not translate ariya with that idea in mind. E.g. some translate 'ariyasaavaka' as 'disciple of the noble ones" seemingly with that idea in mind.
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>kb
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