Dear Nina and friends,

I further realise that hiri = sense of shame, so hirika = having sense of shame?

For ottappa, 'discernment' may already been heavily used in other important contexts. If so, probably ottappa can be interpreted as mindful of blame, or mindful of wrong-doing?

What do you think? Thank you.

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, Ong Yong Peng wrote:

I also refer to PTS, and it has

ahirika~nca anottappa~nca: shamelessness and recklessness
hirika~nca ottappa~nca: sense of shame and fear of blame

May I suggest ottappa: discernment for wrong-doing?

> > hirika - sense of shame
> > ottappa - remorse for wrong-doing

> Ottappa is also translated as fear of blame, fear of the consequences of ill deeds, but also this translation is not ideal. I think we have to remember that hiri and ottappa arise with each kind of kusala: when engaged with daana, with siila, with bhaavanaa. Thus, there is no trace of aversion or any negative element here. One sees the negative effects of evil, both for oneself and others. One sees the benefit of kusala. These two cetasikas support each kusala citta, but at the same time there are many other good qualities as well, such as sati, mindfulness, saddhaa, confidence in kusala, alobha, adosa etc.