Re: Pali Day by Day G041 Question + Cosmic Smile

Dear Jim,

As you say the metre of this verse is Indravajra. It is a metre more
commonly used in ornate (kaavya) literary works, like the Hatthavanagalla
�vihaara-va.msa which figured in one of the recent discussions in this
group. In less sophisticated works like the Jataka, the metrical rules are
not observed strictly. Especially they don't care about long/short in the
last syllable of a line (paada). The reason is that in any case the last
syllable gets lengthened automatically in recitation. Often in these works
we see that two short syllable are found where metre calls for a long
syllable. I think this too is due to the possibility to recite two shorts as
one long.

I'd also like to revert to chabbhi. Words like chabbhi and chassu are
natural phonetic devopments from earlier Old Indo-Aryan forms. In these
cases "sa.dbhi.h and "sa.tsu. These words (like chabbhi and chassu) reflect
conditions of an earlier period in the development of the Pali language.
When grammar appeared on the scene, and grammarians looked at words in terms
of roots, stems and endings, they saw that these sorts of words present
difficulties in analyzing in terms of stems and endings. For the a stem cha-
must give chahi in the instrumental-ablative and chasu in the locative. So
they tended to'corect' such forms to chahi/chasu wherever possible. We can
see thousands of such instances in Pali texts. But there were other
instances where the older, 'uncorrected' forms had to be left as they were,
because of exigencies of metre and such other reasons. Thus these more
natural forms are also numerous in Pali. This is similar to what happened in
the so-called Buddhist Hybrid Sanskrit works (which belong to non-Theravada
schools). There Prakrit words were replaced, wherever possible, by Sanskrit
words, or words that are Sanskritic in appearance. But this could never be
100% successful, particularly in verse. So we have"hybrid Sanskrit" in those
texts.
Mahinda

On Sat, Dec 6, 2008 at 5:54 AM, Jim Anderson <jimanderson.on@...>wrote:

> sages in this topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/11590;_ylc=X3oDMTM2ODdvbHU3BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BG1zZ0lkAzEzMDIzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Z0cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIyODUyMzIzMwR0cGNJZAMxMTU5MA-->
> (95) Reply (via web post)
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJxZm41dmF1BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BG1zZ0lkAzEzMDIzBHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3JwbHkEc3RpbWUDMTIyODUyMzIzMw--?act=reply&messageNum=13023>|
> Start a new topic
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/post;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaTVtbDB0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTIyODUyMzIzMw-->
> Messages<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/messages;_ylc=X3oDMTJlOWhrdXJmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTIyODUyMzIzMw-->|
> Files<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/files;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcmltdnQ4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->|
> Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/photos;_ylc=X3oDMTJlaWQ2b3NnBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTIyODUyMzIzMw-->|
> Links<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/links;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcWhsY2IxBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->|
> Database<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/database;_ylc=X3oDMTJjcTlpNzc4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->|
> Polls<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/polls;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZjdjM3JyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->|
> Calendar<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/calendar;_ylc=X3oDMTJkOXZpZmFlBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMjI4NTIzMjMz>
> - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
> Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
> [Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
> [Pali Document Framework] http://www.tipitaka.net/forge/pdf/
> [Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
> [Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
> Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or web
> only.
> MARKETPLACE
> ------------------------------
> From kitchen basics to easy recipes - join the Group from Kraft Foods
> <http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13rdhs353/M=493064.12016295.13271503.10835568/D=groups/S=1705073947:MKP1/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1228530433/L=/B=92GdJ0LaX90-/J=1228523233925308/A=5530388/R=0/SIG=11nuutlas/*http://explore.yahoo.com/groups/kraftmealsmadesimple/>
> [image: Yahoo! Groups]<http://groups.yahoo.com/;_ylc=X3oDMTJkYjg5ZzNzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMjI4NTIzMjMz>
> Change settings via the Web<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/join;_ylc=X3oDMTJmbjhhbnZyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->(Yahoo! ID required)
> Change settings via email: Switch delivery to Daily Digest<Pali-digest@yahoogroups.com?subject=Email+Delivery:+Digest>| Switch
> format to Traditional<Pali-traditional@yahoogroups.com?subject=Change+Delivery+Format:+Traditional>
> Visit Your Group
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali;_ylc=X3oDMTJkMTNtbzJuBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMjI4NTIzMjMz>|
> Yahoo! Groups Terms of Use <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/>| Unsubscribe
> <Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=>
> Recent Activity
>
> - 5
> New Members<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/members;_ylc=X3oDMTJmcGs2cnViBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZtYnJzBHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->
> - 9
> New Photos<http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/spnew;_ylc=X3oDMTJmZ3U3b2FsBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZwaG90BHN0aW1lAzEyMjg1MjMyMzM->
>
> Visit Your Group
> <http://groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali;_ylc=X3oDMTJlNmxoMWM4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE0BGdycElkAzI1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNzA1MDczOTQ3BHNlYwN2dGwEc2xrA3ZnaHAEc3RpbWUDMTIyODUyMzIzMw-->
> Moderator Central
>
> Yahoo! Groups<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13oj272ff/M=493064.12016262.12445669.8674578/D=groups/S=1705073947:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1228530433/L=/B=.GGdJ0LaX90-/J=1228523233925308/A=5028925/R=0/SIG=11e3tma2a/*http://new.groups.yahoo.com/moderatorcentral>
>
> Get the latest news
>
> from the team.
> Check out the
>
> Y! Groups blog<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13ofns0gn/M=493064.12016258.12582637.8674578/D=groups/S=1705073947:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1228530433/L=/B=.WGdJ0LaX90-/J=1228523233925308/A=5191952/R=0/SIG=112mhte3e/*http://www.ygroupsblog.com/blog/>
>
> Stay up to speed
>
> on all things Groups!
> Need traffic?
>
> Drive customers<http://us.ard.yahoo.com/SIG=13o8jtf5f/M=493064.12016308.12445700.8674578/D=groups/S=1705073947:NC/Y=YAHOO/EXP=1228530433/L=/B=.mGdJ0LaX90-/J=1228523233925308/A=3848644/R=0/SIG=131l83flq/*http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/arp/srchv2.php?o=US2006&cmp=Yahoo&ctv=Groups5&s=Y&s2=&s3=&b=50>
>
> With search ads
>
> on Yahoo!
> .
>
>
>


[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]