Dear Florent,

I don't know if we should keep on hammering on this, to me, rather unobscure
verse. The others will probably find it very boring. Let me just say this:
The Hattha-vana-galla-vihaara-va.msa is a composition modelled on the
classical Skt kaavya, in which observance of metre is inviolable. It deals
with the legendaary story of the Sinhala King Sri Sanghabodhi, who is
reputed to have been the epitome of kindness and generosity and who
abdicated kingship to please his avaricious cousin Go.thaabhaya and
retreated to the Hattha-vana-galla forest to lead an ascetic life. The
successor, in fear of the people's anger, wished to see the end of
Sanghabodhi and promised to pay a large sum of money to whoever brought
Sanghabodh's head. Sangabodhi, having heard from a pilgrim that many heads
were being produced to win the prize, revealed himself to the pilgrim and
severed his own head from the body to let the man produce it before the
king. The ancient people of Lanka venerated Sangabodhi as a bodhisattva.
So, whatever meaning we assign to the stanzas has to be in consonance with
this story, In the instant verse the first 2 lines say that Sangabodhi did
not have the heart to say "I don't have it" or "I won't give it" whenever a
supplicant asked for a thing. ( "thing": this is what 'vatthu' means here).
The last two lines follow from this." Due to the great compassion that
filled his heart, there was no room left in it for attachment to things
(vatthu-ta.nhaa). It is as if that (attachment) had (left his heart and)
gone to a far off place." The 14th century Sinhala version of the HVV also
interprest the stanza in this manner. That text has been subjected to a
thorough examination by the veteran Sinhala scholar Kumaratunga, who was
incidentally an absolute master of Sanskrit and Pali languages as well.

Although we can continue the conversation in the same vein for the rest of
what you say, in the interests of the wider group, I would prefer to call it
a day.

Thanks and best wishes.

Mahinda

On Mon, Oct 6, 2008 at 6:43 AM, flrobert2000 <flrobert2000@...> wrote:

> Dear Mahinda,
>
> Thank you very much for your very thorough explanations. We
> discussed this half gaathaa with one of my pali teachers.
> First of all let me point out all the differences between the CSCD
> and Buddhadatta:
> 1. mahaakaru.naaya / mahaakaru.nayaa
> 2. paha.taavakaasaava / paha.taavakaasaa
> 3. dura.mjagaama / duura.m jagaama (please note the short u in the
> CSCD)
> 4. tassa / tassa hi
> 5. bhavatthu ta.nhaa / vatthuta.nhaa
> To summarize, here's the CSCD version :
> Citte mahaakaru.naaya paha.taavakaasaava,
> Dura.mjagaama viya tassa bhavatthu ta.nhaa.
> And here's Buddhadatta's version:
> Citte mahaakaru.nayaa paha.taavakaasaa,
> Duura.m jagaama viya tassa hi vatthuta.nhaa.
> As you have pointed it out, the Buddhadatta version perfectly fits
> the Vasantatilakaa meter of a sakkarii paada (14 syllables):
> Citte mahaakaru.nayaa paha.taavakaasaa,
> LLSLSSSLSSLSLL
> Duura.m jagaama viya tassa hi vatthuta.nhaa.
> LLSLSSSLSSLSLL
>
> Here's the CSCD version of the full gathaa which indeed doesn't
> respect the meter at all, it's the least we can say.
> Dehiiti vatthumasuka.m gaditotthikehi,
> LLSLSSSLSSLSLS (14 syllables)
> Naala.m kathetumha natthi na demicaati;
> LLSLLSLSSLSLS (13 syllables)
> Citte mahaakaru.naaya paha.taavakaasaava,
> LLSLSSLSSSLSLLS (15 syllables)
> Dura.mjagaama viya tassa bhavatthu ta.nhaa.
> SLSLSSSLSSLSLL (14 syllables)
>
> One could translate the two preceding paadas in the following way:
>
> When asked (gadito) by the needy one (atthikehi) "Give me such a
> thing(vatthumasuka.m)"
> You should not say "I don't have, I don't give"
>
> Let's continue with : "Citte mahaakaru.nayaa paha.taavakaasaa"
> You translated avakaassa by space. According to my teacher it could
> also be avakaasa = chance, so this paada could mean "this is a
> chance for the great compassion to strike in the mind" or something
> like "This is a chance for the great compassion to appear in his
> mind." if this makes more sense.
> He then translated "duura.m jagaama viya tassa hi vatthuta.nhaa"
> by "it is hard for him to overcome the desire for wealth", the idea
> being that although great compassion arises in his mind, the desire
> for wealth is still strong and might always be an obstacle in giving
> to the needy. Here he chose dura.m (difficult) instead of duura.m
> (far) and extrapolated jagaama to overcome.
>
> We also had a look at the lines preceding this gaathaa and had quite
> some problems with the syntax and spelling. According to my teacher
> some of the paa.li is not standard such
> as "maatulamahaatherassa.mca" or "saparivaara ve.naa kaani" or
> especially "sa"nasaparibhogaarahaani" which he has never heard of
> before.
>
> So raajaa mahaa vihaare mahaggha mahaavisaala.m salaakagga.m
> kaaraapetvaa anekasahassaana.m bhikkhuuna.m nicca.m salaaka bhatta.m
> pa.t.thapesi. Maatulamahaatherassa.mca sakanaama dheyyena mahanta.m
> parive.na vihaara.m kaaraapetvaa anekehi kappiyabha.n.dehi saddhi.m
> saparivaara ve.naa kaani gaamakkhettaani sa �nasaparibhogaarahaani
> katvaa daapesi sattameva nisiithakaale rahogato mahaabodhisattassa
> dukkaracaritaani sallakkhento taadisaapadaana.m attani
> sampaadetumaasi.msi. Tathaa hi
>
> The meaning could be very approximately:
> "Having caused to build a very expensive and very big room for
> distributing food by tickets the king always prepares food for many
> monks. [�] Having gone to a lonely place around midnight, he
> remembers the ascetic practices of the Buddha, and wishes to be
> endowed with those attributes himself".
> avakaasaa= chances (nom. plur.)
>
> So if I understand well, it is the king's greed for wealth which is
> referred to. It could either "have gone far away" as you suggest it
> or it would also not be completely illogical to think that it
> is "hard to overcome", for such a wealthy person.
>
> I understand very well that you are certainly much more familiar
> with the Hatthavanagallava.msa than my Pali teacher, but I thought
> it could be interesting to mention what he said. By the way, his
> name is venerable U Nodhi~naa.na and he teaches at the ITBMU in
> Yangon.
>
> Kind regards,
>
> Florent
>
>
>


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