Dear Nina and Pali friends,

That's quite a lot of words, but we agree on the essential point.

On Fri, Oct 3, 2008 at 3:28 PM, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...> wrote:

> Dear Piya,
>
> Op 3-okt-2008, om 4:00 heeft Piya Tan het volgende geschreven:


> Does this mean that all the nine angas are already there even when the
> Buddha started teaching?
>
> The Buddha taught for 45 years. Understandably, the nine angas could
> have
> evolved eventually, perhaps after the first 20 years when the Buddha's
> audience
> was not so spiritually ready as during the first 20 years.
> --------
> N: I do not think the audience was less ready, perhaps even more
> ready. There were so many arahats.
> As to the history, I do not have an answer. I only know that the
> whole Tipitaka was rehearsed at the first council. Of each sutta
> Anada said: eva.m me sutta.m.
> It was not said that the Buddha spoke the suttas in this or that
> order, such as the Ones, the Twos, etc. All the arahats that
> rehearsed together had a fabulous memory, not darkened by defilements
> such as in our case.
> ----------


My main question regarding the "history" (as you put it) remains. It's
obvious
from the Vinaya stories and early Suttas that the Buddha gradually
introduced
the Dharma to the world.

Even the First Council did not put together everything. For example, the
Kathavatthu which was canonized during Asoka's time.

As regards whether the Buddha taught Abhidharma, let leave it at that.
However, anyone interested in my research on how Abhidhamma "began"
is welcome to read it:

http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com/01Abhidhammapiya.doc.

My point remains: we cannot apply the nine angas as a set to all the Suttas.
Maybe to the much later texts. Maybe even not those, but the whole anga
system is post-Buddha.

Even if we say "the Arhats" put the texts together, we do not know this
first-hand. It is still pi.taka,sampadaaya.

Anyway I still have no doubt about the Dharma, notwithstanding whether the
Angas refer to the whole Canon or not.

We are building quite a raft here: let's start using it.

With metta,

Piya Tan




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