Dear Johan,

You misunderstand, brother.
Nina had meant to describe the latin passage, when she said "coarse".
She has devoted a large part of her life to studying the dhamma, guiding
others and above all, zealously living the dhamma. It is not possible for
such a person to make a negative personal comment about anyone.

re. your comments on latin, I agree.

with metta,
_____________________________________________________

On 3/26/08, johan wijaya <dhamma_joti@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Nina,
> I do not think Dave meant to be coarse.
> I guess Dave does make a good point by quoting what Piya said earlier in
> my asking about the other Pali-Latin translation done by PTS, "Victorian
> scholars of yesteryears.....unspeakable" and Piya did translate the Latin
> verse into English for us. If it were unspeakable, Piya wouldn't have been
> able to speak about it .
> And we all do agree that the passage is actually cute and interesting, not
> 'unspeakable' or 'dirty'.
>
> Anyway, there are a lot of "violence" acts to be found in Jataka English
> translation which are not proper to be known and read by children. However,
> it IS translated into English. So what is the standard of "decency"?
> If that is what happened at Buddha's/Bodhisatta's time, then so be it, why
> hide it?
>
> Dhamma is the teaching of the Buddha, it is universal, and there should be
> nothing to be hidden or censored (throughout the using of 'Latin' or other
> languages) if it IS universal. I was wondering why PTS did that, on one side
> they claim to be selling the Tipitaka in English version (not in English
> version and a bit Latin version).
>
> I do acknowledge and understand that translation needs time, and as you
> implicitly said it depends on your time and that you cannot promise when, I
> guess I (and Dave and many others who are eager to see the translation) have
> to wait till that day comes.
> If only I knew Latin.............
>
> Dear Piya Tan,
> What remarks of yours are quoted by Nina? I don't get them. Or you mean by
> "Dave"?
>
> Whether or not a person finds a/the translation in good taste is not an
> excuse for us to hide the translation by using other language(s).
> The book reference given is not able to be read freely...it requires
> payment. Do you have any other source of reference which is free of charge?
> I do not understand why we should pay for the "hidden" things as we can
> get the not "hidden" things freely through the web.
>
> It seems like you do have the book with you. Is it possible to share it
> with us here?
>
> Anyway, thank you all for the responses.
>
> With Peace, Respect, and Loving Kindness,
> Jo.
>
> Piya Tan <dharmafarer@... <dharmafarer%40gmail.com>> wrote: Further
> to my remarks quoted by Nina, please let me add the following:
>
> The Kacchapa Jataka (J 273) belong to the genre of the most ribald of
> tales
> of Chaucer's Canterbury Tales and Boccaccio's Decameron. It probably comes
> from what is called gnomic tradition, or popular folklore, if you like.
> The
> Buddhists
> retold the story probably for its popular appeal.
>
> I'm not sure if everyone who reads the English translation will find it in
> good taste.
> It is certainly not a canonical story.
>
> For those who wish to read story in English, please see
>
> John Garrett Jones,
> "Tales and Teachings of the Buddha"
> 1979:194 f (Appendix)
>
> which deals specifically with just this Jataka.
>
> Sorry for lacking enthusiasm in presenting this information early.
>
> Anyway, please laugh with good humour at the story, and leave it at that.
>
> With metta,
>
> Piya Tan
>
> On Tue, Mar 25, 2008 at 10:21 PM, Nina van Gorkom <vangorko@...<vangorko%40xs4all.nl>
> >
> wrote:
>
> > Dear Dave,
> > I think it over, but I do not like anything coarse. It also depends
> > on my time. The message in the Jataka is that the monkey and tortoise
> > should forget their quarrel and make up, and this message is excellent.
> > We can apply it and that is so with the Jatakas, they are Dhamma to
> > be applied in daily life.
> > Nina.
> > Op 24-mrt-2008, om 18:46 heeft P G Dave het volgende geschreven:
> >
> >
> > > I recall on an earlier occasion Piya Tan mentioning the practice of
> > > "Victorian scholars of yesteryears" to use Latin where they thought
> > > the Pali
> > > passage was "unspeakable".
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
> >
> >
>
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