Dear George,
You must be the presenter of "Paa.li Noun Morphology" at the 1st World
Congress on the
Power of Language (200*6) in Bangkok. Are you a Pali lecturer? I'm sure many
on this chatroom
(esp Yong Peng) gladly welcome you.
Please forgive our occasional unscholarly riff-raff as we try to put some
humanity and spirituality
in this otherwise cyber cemetery of pontificating pixels.
*
Now back to the riff-raff:
From WIKIPEDIA "Extinct Language"
"An *extinct language* is a language
<
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Language>which no longer has any native
speakers <
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_language>, in contrast to a *dead
language*, which is a language which has stopped changing in grammar,
vocabulary, and the complete meaning of a sentence."
This is most interesting. I know of the following:
(1) Buddhadatta' English-Pali Dictionary I think contains some Pali
neologisms.
(2) The last trimester of the 9-year monastic Pali in Thailand includes
composing original Pali verses.
(3) I might say too that over the centuries, Pali grammar and terminology
have evolved.
Does this not make Pali "non-dead" (though it might be "undead" for some)?
Moreover, it is also
a liturgical language (used in daily chanting in monasteries, homes, etc).
I'm still not convinced that Pali is a "dead" language (following the above
definition).
(Here I go splitting hairs, instead of reflecting on impermanence to gain
streamwinning in this life!)
Aside: Ajahn Sujato, are you reading this? (Okay, so I've used up my quota
of one email a year :)
With metta,
Piya
On Jan 25, 2008 10:53 PM, gdbedell <gdbedell@...> wrote:
> Piya,
>
> My name is George (Bedell); please call me that.
>
> I refer you to the Wikipedia entry on 'Extinct Languages'. Actually that
> entry distinguishes
> between 'extinct' languages and 'dead' languages, which is a little new to
> me. I doubt
> there are any 'dead' but not 'extinct' languages in their sense. In my
> usage and that of
> most linguists, the two are the same and correspond to what the entry
> calls 'extinct'.
> Either way, Pali (like Latin, Sanskrit or Classical Chinese) is both dead
> and extinct.
>
> with metta,
>
> George B
>
>
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
> <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
> >
> > Shall I call you DB or Bedell?
> >
> > Thanks for the interesting feedback, and I would like to know more. Any
> > citations?
> >
> > I can see phantom question marks over some of my more intelligent pupils
> > looking
> > at me with suspicion if I said that a certain gdbedell on Pali Yahoo
> said
> > such and
> > such. Not that I don't value what you have said; indeed, for the very
> > contrary.
> >
> > Citations please.
> >
> > Agape,
> >
> > Piya
> >
> >
> > On Jan 25, 2008 10:26 PM, gdbedell <gdbedell@...> wrote:
> >
> > > With all due respect to Piya Tan and others of like mind, a 'dead'
> > > language is usually
> > > defined as one with no native speakers. These are people who learn it
> as
> > > their first
> > > language and for whom it remains the primary mode of communication. By
> > > this definition,
> > > Pali is a dead language in spite of the many Buddhists who read and
> chant
> > > it regularly, and
> > > situations like that described by Piya for the Thai abbot in Sri
> Lanka.
> > > Being dead does not
> > > prevent it from preserving the Buddha's teachings.
> > >
> > >
> > > --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com><Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "Piya Tan"
>
> > > <dharmafarer@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > When I was a monk in Thailand some 40 years back, I remember my
> abbot
> > > (the
> > > > current Somdet Phutthacharn of Wat Srakes) saying when he went to
> Sri
> > > Lanka,
> > > > he knew no Sinhala, and the Sinhalese knew no Thai. So they
> communicated
> > > in
> > > > Pali.
> > > >
> > > > Furthermore, Pali is not a "dead" language (like hieroglyphics,
> which
> > > nobody
> > > > uses).
> > > > Pali is commonly use by living cultures. Sometimes it is called a
> > > > Kunstsprache,
> > > > which I think literally translates as "speech for art" a sort of
> > > artificial
> > > > language
> > > > specially devised to preserve the Buddha's Teachings.
> > > >
> > > > Metta,
> > > >
> > > > Piya
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > On Jan 25, 2008 2:59 PM, Jon Fernquest <bayinnaung@> wrote:
> > > >
> > > > > In a previous thread (History of the word "Aryan") Piya Tan
> suggests:
> > > > >
> > > > > "I think we should stop speaking English here, and start using
> Pali.
> > > After
> > > > >
> > > > > all this is a Pali website."
> > > > >
> > > > > I would like to do this, but has a spoken Pali primer ever been
> > > written?
> > > > >
> > > > > I once asked a former monk friend of mine how to say some simple
> > > > > phrases and even though he can read Pali very well, he wasn't able
> to
> > > > > produce spoken Pali. Does anyone speak Pali anymore? When did they
> in
> > > > > the past?
> > > > >
> > > > > This reminds me of a **Pali phrase book** used to help beginners
> > > > > communicate in Pali, that I found at a bookseller in Yangon, Burma
> > > > > several years ago, that was published in Sri Lanka.
> > > > >
> > > > > Has anyone ever seen such a thing or know where it can be
> obtained?
> > > > >
> > > > > Sincerely,
> > > > > Jon
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > --
> > > > The Minding Centre
> > > > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
> > > > Singapore 650644
> > > > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
> > > >
> > > >
> > > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > > >
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> >
> > --
> > The Minding Centre
> > Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
> > Singapore 650644
> > Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>
--
The Minding Centre
Blk 644 Bukit Batok Central #01-68 (2nd flr)
Singapore 650644
Website: dharmafarer.googlepages.com
[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]