Dear John,

Also in my own translation (http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com), I made
a note that by the time the Buddha speaks to Sigala, he is the head of the
house. Sigalapita has already passed away.

Thanks for your efforts again,

Metta,

Piya Tan

On 10/17/07, John Kelly <palistudent@...> wrote:
>
> Dear Dave and DC,
>
> Thanks very much for your comments/feedback on the translation and
> grammatical analysis of DN 31 that I am sending to the group in small
> pieces.
>
> In the detailed word-by-word grammatical analysis we (a group of 3 of
> us) aimed for literal accuracy, whereas in the final translation our
> goal was for idiomatic, readable, modern English. And bear in mind
> that the final translation result was always a consensus by committee
> and not necessarily how I would have rendered the final version myself.
>
> Clearly "gahapati-putta" literally means "householder's son", but that
> is not how someone would be addressed in modern English, and we chose
> the more colloquial "young man" in the vocative, and "young
> householder" for other cases. I would note too that Bhikkhu Bodhi
> translates "devaputta" as "young deva" rather than "son of a deva", so
> we have a solid precedent.
>
> All comments are appreciated.
>
> With metta,
> John
> --- In Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>, "P G Dave"
> <pgd2507@...> wrote:
> >
> > Dear *DC Wijeratna,*
> >
> > very true. I agree that a free translation makes better reading than a
> > literal translation keeping in mind the fact that every language has
> its own
> > flavour and peculiarities. but, as you rightly point out, here it
> becomes
> > misleading.
> >
> > I searched the net for the "Ara.na <http://ara.na/> Vibhanga sutta".
> > couldn't find anything.
> > If it's not too inconvenient, would u kindly send me an attaced file
> > containing the text with an available translation if possible.
> >
> > thanks.
> > with metta,
> > _________________________________________________
> >
> > On 10/10/07, DC Wijeratna <dcwijeratna@...> wrote:
> > >
> > > Dear Dave,
> > >
> > > "wouldn't "gahapati-putta.m" mean householder's son rather than young
> > > householder..."
> > >
> > > I agree with you. The Pali word for a young man is maanava or
> maanavaka.
> > >
> > > I think this error is most probably caused not because the translator
> > > didn't know the meaning. I think he elsewhere gives the meaning as
> > > householder's son. So what I surmise is that he did it in order to
> translate
> > > it to "idiomatic English".
> > >
> > > But I think it is a grave error in translating ancient text to a
> modern
> > > language. Words have a meaning only within a context. And that
> cannot be
> > > reproduced today, especially in a different tongue.
> > >
> > > Take this example, gahapati, is a generic term by the Buddha to
> indicate
> > > what we might call head of a household, not even a householder.
> > > Gahapatiputta really seem to distinguish between a monks and lay
> people. It
> > > really means only that he is a lay person who is not a head of a
> household.
> > > It is same as 'gihii'. In any case, there is no way to bring the word
> > > 'young'; puttas also become old!!!
> > >
> > > These are some of my thoughts. I think the solution is to use an
> agreed
> > > term. See Ara.na <http://ara.na/> Vibhanga sutta.
> > >
> > > With mettaa,
> > >
> > > D. G. D. C. Wijeratna
> > >
> > > __________________________________________________________
> > > Pinpoint customers who are looking for what you sell.
> > > http://searchmarketing.yahoo.com/
> > >
> > > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> > >
> > >
> > >
> >
> >
> > [Non-text portions of this message have been removed]
> >
>
>
>



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