Dear Piya,

I was reading through everything again.

I just noticed that Thanissaro Bhikkhu uses the phrase "well-tuned
('penetrated') by means of discernment" for "suppa.tividdhaa pa~n~naaya" or
"well penetrated by wisdom" as you put it and not for "sa~n~naa" for which
he uses the same word as you do -- "perception".

Metta,
PG
___________________________________

On 1/2/07, Piya Tan <dharmafarer@...> wrote:
>
> Dear PG,
>
> As I often find Thanissaro's translation tedious reading, I have checked
> the
> Pali myself and finally come up with a provisional translation. The
> Sutta's
> meaning is much clearer now. Let me try to see if I can help you.
>
> On 12/30/06, pgd2507 <pgd2507@... <pgd2507%40gmail.com>> wrote:
> >
> > 1.
> > when Buddha talks about "what is in front and what is behind" is he
> > referring to objects outside the body OR bodily sensations in front and
> > on the back OR something else altogether?
> >
> > If he means outside objects, would it then imply that eyes be kept open?
> >
>
> The Sutta itself simply explains this phrase as follows:
>
> "Here, bhikshus, *the perception of after and before* is well grasped by a
> monk, well attended to mental­ly, well borne in mind, well penetrated by
> wisdom."
>
> Pali: Idha bhikkhave bhikkhuno pacchaa,pure sa~n~naa suggahitaa hoti
> sumanasikataa supadhaaritaa suppa.tividdhaa pa~n~naaya.
>
> If we follow Bhikkhu Bodhi's explanation, this means making your
> meditation
> thorough, in the beginning and in the ending. This may well be right, but
> only part of the explanation.
>
> Often in the Suttas, we see "pacchaa,pure" to mean the past (the back) and
> the future (the front). This has two senses:
>
> (1) keeping up the practice all the time, from beginning to end (similar
> to
> Bodhi's expl);
>
> (2) letting go of the past and the future: keeping one's mind firmly
> rooted
> in the present as in the Bhaddeka,ratta Sutta, M 131-134).
>
> > 2.
> > what is meant by all these terms used in relation to perception:
> > "well in hand", "well-attended to", "well-considered", "well-tuned
> > ('penetrated')"
> > how are these distinguished and distinctly attained?
> > what are the pali words used for these phrases?
> >
>
> My own intuitive interpretations:
>
> "well-grasped" (suggahitaa) = understood and learned well (his meditation
> training).
>
> "well attended to mentally" (su-manasikataa) = having paid wise attention
> to.
>
> "well borne in mind" (su-pa-dharitaa) = maintaining his mindfulness
> steady,
> remembering.
>
> "well penetrated" (su-p,pa.tividdhaa) = (1) constantly reflecting on
> phenomena as "imperment, etc" (leading to streamwinning); (2) well
> understood the true nature of phenomena, attained to arhathood.
>
> > 3.
> > what kind of discernment is intended in the phrase, "by means of
> > discernment"?
> > is it about seeing in everything the inescapable trio of anicca, dukkha
> > and anatta?
> >
> > Would someone be so kind as to throw some light..
> >
>
> "Discernment" here is sa~n~naa, My preferred translation is "perception,"
> imperfect as it is, it is better understood universally (even by those who
> translate it otherwise). We define words, rather than words define us, or
> as
> one might say, "the uposatha was made for man" :) "Discernment" is also
> confusing: Peter Harvey (in "Selfless Mind", 1995) uses it for vi~n~aa.na!
>
> Perception is (1) a class of meditation when a palpable (mentally or
> physically) object is used for focussing the mind. Otherwise, (2) it can
> refer to a "sign" (nimitta) that one experience in meditation, say about a
> past event.
>
> Sa~n~naa (perception) is used in the Sutta in connection with the
> following:
> (1) perception of light (aaloka,sa~n~naa);
> (2) the past and future (pacchaa,pure): letting for of the past and
> future;
> closely watching the present moment.
>
> Some translators try their best to find a unique word or term for every
> Pali
> word or term, or try to introduce a neologism which further confounds the
> situation. (In rare situations, a neologism may help, but has to be
> clearly
> explained in a footnote, etc) But English is a living language and Pali a
> scriptural language, both have their idioms. We translate meanings not
> words. Moreover we can never find exact equivalent words between language,
> as this would be against the law of non-self!
>
> We are translating a living Dharma for personal liberation, not a
> technical
> manual on science or computer language.
>
> It's all right if the translator is a traitor to the word (tradittore
> traduttore), but never a traitor to the sense.
>
> [Sorry about the idiosyncratic fonts: I'm not sure how to change the fonts
> in Gmail.]
>
> Happy new year!
>
> Piya Tan
> The Minding Centre
> http://dharmafarer.googlepages.com
>
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>
>
>


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