Yes, but the prose of the Kunaalajaataka is canonical. It has surprisingly
survived the later rewriting of all of the original (?) Jaataka prose.
Substantial parts of the Pali canon no doubt originated many decades after
the Buddha. I assume, however, that a substantial portion of the canon had
already been compiled at the time of Asoka.
OP
-----Oprindelig meddelelse-----
Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Piya Tan
Sendt: 26. september 2006 19:36
Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: Re: [Pali] Itthi & Matugama
That is, if we assume these stories or depictions are contemporaneous with
the Buddha's time. More likely, these are centuries after the Buddha. We
know for example that only the Jataka verses are canonical, the stories were
compiled later (?).
Piya
On 9/27/06, Ole Holten Pind <oleholtenpind@...> wrote:
>
> Misogynistic utterances in early Buddhist lit. do not differ from
> what we find in Indian lit. in general. Please read the
> Kunaalajaataka. There are plenty of similar instances. I have often
> wondered about the status of women ini ndian society at the time of
> the Buddha.
>
> OP
>
> _____
>
> Fra: Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com> [mailto:
> Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>] På vegne af rahula_80
> Sendt: 16. september 2006 16:04
> Til: Pali@yahoogroups.com <Pali%40yahoogroups.com>
> Emne: [Pali] Itthi & Matugama
>
> Hi,
>
> I encountered this misogynistic passage. I am searching for an
> explantion. Although this is a Pali group, I hope you could help me.
>
> AN, II.82-83
>
> (10) Disabilities of Women
>
> Once the Exalted One dwelt in Ghosita-park at Kosambi. Then the
> venerable ânanda came to where the Exalted One was. Having so come he
> made obeisance to the Exalted One and took a seat at one side. So
> seated the venerable ânanda said thus to the Exalted One
>
> "What is the reason, Lord, what is the cause that womenfolk do not
> preside in a court of justice,' nor engage in an occupation, nor go to
> a foreign* country ?
>
> ânanda, a woman is given to anger. ânanda, woman is envious. ânanda, a
> woman is greedy. ânanda, woman is poor in wisdom. This is the reason,
> ânanda, this is the cause, why women-folk do not preside in a court of
> justice, nor engage in an occupation, nor go to a foreign country."
>
> Catukkanipàta (4), Apaõõakavaggo [ON THE PERFECT WAY ] (8) :10
>
> http://www.metta.
> <http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara->
> lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-
> Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukkanipata/008-apannakavaggo-e2.html
>
> 10. Kosambiyasuttaü Ý In Kosambiya
>
> 008. 10. At one time the Blessed One was living in Gosita's monastery
> in Kosambiya. Venerable ânanda approached the Blessed One, worshipped,
> sat on a side and said:
>
> Venerable sir, what is the reason that women neither come to the
> limelight, nor doing an industry see its benefits?
>
> ânanda, women are hateful, jealous, miserly and lack wisdom, as a
> result they neither come to the limelight, nor do an industry and see
> its benefits.
>
> Catukkanipàta , Apaõõakavaggo (The assured state)
>
> http://www.metta.
> <http://www.metta.lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara->
> lk/tipitaka/2Sutta-Pitaka/4Anguttara-
> Nikaya/Anguttara2/4-catukkanipata/008-apannakavaggo-e.html
>
> The passage in Pali:
>
> 10. kambojasutta.m
>
> 80. eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa kosambiya.m viharati ghositaaraame. atha
> kho aayasmaa aanando yena bhagavaa tenupasa"nkami; upasa"nkamitvaa
> bhagavanta.m abhivaadetvaa ekamanta.m nisiidi. ekamanta.m nisinno kho
> aayasmaa aanando bhagavanta.m etadavoca --
>
> ``ko nu kho, bhante, hetu ko paccayo, yena maatugaamo neva sabhaaya.m
> nisiidati, na kammanta.m payojeti, na kamboja.m gacchatii''ti?
> ``kodhano, aananda, maatugaamo; issukii, aananda, maatugaamo;
> maccharii , aananda, maatugaamo; duppa~n~no, aananda, maatugaamo --
> aya.m kho , aananda, hetu aya.m paccayo, yena maatugaamo neva
> sabhaaya.m nisiidati, na kammanta.m payojeti, na kamboja.m
> gacchatii''ti. dasama.m.
>
> apa.n.nakavaggo tatiyo.
>
> Dr Hellmuth Hecker, in "Man and Woman The Teachings of the Buddha"
> wrote:
>
> "In the language of Middle India of his time, the Buddha found two
> expressions for the female: first, the neutral term itthi (woman) and
> second, the discriminating term matugama. Literally, matugama means
> "mother (matar) in the village (gama)" and describes a woman who does
> not think further than her village horizon, a woman who has no higher
> ideal than motherhood. Every matugama is an itthi, but not every itthi
> is a matugama. When the suttas are speaking of primitive women and of
> female vicissitudes, then women are called matugama and not itthi. "
> http://www2.
> <http://www2.hawaii.edu/~tsomo/NewsLetters/3-1.htm#Hellmuth>
> hawaii.edu/~tsomo/NewsLetters/3-1.htm#Hellmuth
>
> Is Hecker correct?
>
> Thanks.
>
> Best wishes,
> Rahula
>
> <
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