Re: pronouncing ññ and .t.t

Rett & John,

Thanks for your replies. So we have:

.t.t => like "hot tap", not "hot-ta tap"
ññ => like "aañ ño", not "aañ-ñ ño"

"Aañño" sounds like Spanish "año" (year) but with double the normal time
used to say ñ.

Best wishes,

Paul

-----Original Message-----
From: Pali@yahoogroups.com [mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com]
Sent: Sunday, July 02, 2006 2:46 PM
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Subject: [Pali] Digest Number 1581

Pali
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJkbDdqcGtzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNoZHIEc2xrA2hwaARzdGltZQMxMTUxOD
Y5NTcw;_ylg=1/SIG=117lt1m05/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali>
Student Mailing List

Messages In This Digest (1 Message)

1.

Re: pronouncing ññ and .t.t <> From: John Kelly

View
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJmZW1ubHQyBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNhdHBjBHN0aW1lAzExNT
E4Njk1NzE-;_ylg=1/SIG=126cn50su/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/m
essages%3fxm=1%26m=p%26tidx=1> All Topics | Create
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJmbTNwZzB0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNudHBjBHN0aW1lAzExNT
E4Njk1NzE-;_ylg=1/SIG=11c3n127m/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/p
ost> New Topic

Message

1.

Re: pronouncing ññ and .t.t

Posted by: "John Kelly" palistudent@...
<mailto:palistudent@...?Subject=
Re%3A%20pronouncing%20%80%A0%A6%F1%F1%20and%20%2Et%2Et> palistudent
<http://profiles.yahoo.com/palistudent>

Sun Jul 2, 2006 1:35 am (PST)

Hi Paul and Rett,

My understanding is the same as yours, Rett, that there is just a
lengthening (actually a doubling) of the length of time one lingers on
a double-consonant compared to pronouncing the same consonant singly.
Very much like in English the difference between 'unnecessary' and
'runner' - in the former the 'n' sound is lingered over, whereas in
the latter we anglophones ignore the doubling and make it sound like a
single 'n' ('runer'!) Similarly compare English 'hot tap' with
'hotter' - the 't' sound in the former being twice as long as it is
the latter.

Paul, I don't believe there should be a staccato effect as in the
caricature of an Italian pronouncing English: 'I turn on the hot-ta
tap'.

As a personal aside: My maternal grandfather was Italian, and
although I never knew him (he died when my mother was a child) we grew
up calling our grandmother 'nonna' which is the Italian for
'grandmother'. As normal English speakers are wont to do, we kids
would always pronounce this like the 'n' was single, and she would
always try and correct us and pronounce it the way Italians would with
a true doubling of the 'n'.

With metta,
John
--- In Pali@... <mailto:Pali%40yahoogroups.com> com, rett
<rett@...> wrote:

>
>
> 2006-07-01 kl. 00.35 skrev Paul Allan:
>
> > Does one pronounce ññ (as in Dhp. 165: "n' aañño añña'm visodhaye")

> > doubling the length of time used to pronounce a single consonant? On
> > the other hand, .t.t. (a.t.tha, di.t.thi) requires a staccato sound,
> > correct?
> >
> > Thanks,
> >
> >
> Hi,
>
> I''m not sure what you mean by staccato, but with .t.t or other

doubled

> stops you get the speech organs into position (thereby stopping the

air

> flow in the mouth) then hesitate before releasing the sound. Like the
> two t-s in: fat tank.
>
> best regards,
>
> /Rett
>

Back to top <>
Reply <mailto:palistudent@...?Subject=
Re%3A%20pronouncing%20%80%A0%A6%F1%F1%20and%20%2Et%2Et> to sender |
Reply <mailto:Pali@yahoogroups.com?Subject=
Re%3A%20pronouncing%20%80%A0%A6%F1%F1%20and%20%2Et%2Et> to group | Reply
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJyN2swcG0zBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BG1zZ0lkAzEwNTU3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawNycG
x5BHN0aW1lAzExNTE4Njk1NzE-;_ylg=1/SIG=12bbi28i5/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.
com/group/Pali/post%3fact=reply%26messageNum=10557> via web post
Messages
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTM3bWtkOGZhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BG1zZ0lkAzEwNTU3BHNlYwNkbXNnBHNsawN2dH
BjBHN0aW1lAzExNTE4Njk1NzEEdHBjSWQDMTA1NTU-;_ylg=1/SIG=11l8buutj/**http%3
a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/message/10555> in this topic (3)

Create
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJlbXVjYTluBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA250cGMEc3RpbWUDMTE1MT
g2OTU3MQ--;_ylg=1/SIG=11c3n127m/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/p
ost> New Topic | Visit
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJjN2JzNjRkBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwBHN0aW1lAzExNTE4Nj
k1NzE-;_ylg=1/SIG=117lt1m05/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> Your
Group on the Web
Messages
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJlZ2lhbDh0BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA21zZ3MEc3RpbWUDMTE1MT
g2OTU3MA--;_ylg=1/SIG=11gpm8ggd/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/m
essages> | Files
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJmOWlwdDRhBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2ZpbGVzBHN0aW1lAzExNT
E4Njk1NzA-;_ylg=1/SIG=11dufqnfh/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/f
iles> | Photos
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJlMnEwc2ZqBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3Bob3QEc3RpbWUDMTE1MT
g2OTU3MA--;_ylg=1/SIG=11euduubl/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/p
hotos> | Links
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJmOWx2N3RmBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2xpbmtzBHN0aW1lAzExNT
E4Njk1NzA-;_ylg=1/SIG=11d11kj9l/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/l
inks> | Database
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJjajVpbW05BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2RiBHN0aW1lAzExNTE4Nj
k1NzA-;_ylg=1/SIG=11g9un6fi/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/datab
ase> | Polls
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJmNGE3ZjFzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3BvbGxzBHN0aW1lAzExNT
E4Njk1NzA-;_ylg=1/SIG=11dh5drob/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/p
olls> | Calendar
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJkdDB2YXZzBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2NhbARzdGltZQMxMTUxOD
Y5NTcx;_ylg=1/SIG=11gp36g7v/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/calen
dar>
- - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - - -
Paa.li-Parisaa - The Pali Collective
[Homepage] http://www.tipitaka.net
[Files] http://www.geocities.com/paligroup/
[Send Message] pali@yahoogroups.com
Yahoo! Groups members can set their delivery options to daily digest or
web only.

<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJkbmFqbHU4BF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2dmcARzdGltZQMxMTUxOD
Y5NTcx;_ylg=1/SIG=10skg51ah/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com> Yahoo! Groups
You are receiving a Daily Digest Change
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJmcnZqNG9jBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA3N0bmdzBHN0aW1lAzExNT
E4Njk1NzE-;_ylg=1/SIG=11codfsa9/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali/j
oin> Delivery Settings
Visit
<http://us.lrd.yahoo.com/_ylc=X3oDMTJkOHFhcjllBF9TAzk3MzU5NzE1BGdycElkAz
I1OTEzNzMEZ3Jwc3BJZAMxNjAwMDczOTQ3BHNlYwNmdHIEc2xrA2hwZgRzdGltZQMxMTUxOD
Y5NTcx;_ylg=1/SIG=117lt1m05/**http%3a//groups.yahoo.com/group/Pali> Your
Group | Yahoo! Groups Terms <http://docs.yahoo.com/info/terms/> of Use
| Unsubscribe
<mailto:Pali-unsubscribe@yahoogroups.com?subject=Unsubscribe>

<http://geo.yahoo.com/serv?s=97359715&grpId=2591373&grpspId=1600073947&m
sgId=1581&stime=1151869570>

[Non-text portions of this message have been removed]