Dear Nina,

thanks.

I shall rewrite the bojjha`nga's as:
satisambojjha`nga - enlightenment factor of mindfulness;
dhammavicayasambojjha`nga - enlightenment factor of investigation of
dhamma; etc.

sammaasa`nkappa: right thought/thinking.

I agree on 'ajjhatta', from within. An interesting grammatical note:
in the phrase "bhikkhu ajjhatta.m ruupasa~n~nii", 'ruupasa~n~nii'
refers to 'bhikkhu' while 'ajjhatta.m' refers to 'ruupa-'
within 'ruupasa~n~nii'.

Thanks for explaining 'aruupasa~n~nii'. I agree 'unconscious' is
misleading, 'not conscious' is fine with me, 'unaware' is a less
strong alternative although it still links well with the last part
of each sutta: he is thus aware.

I still have a question. When the monk thinks/says "jaanaami
passaami", what has he known, seen or discovered? Impermanance? Non-
self? Why did the Buddha not elaborate? Thanks.

metta,
Yong Peng.

--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, nina van gorkom wrote:

> 31-37. Satisambojjha`nga.m bhaaveti... dhammavicayasambojjha`nga.m
> ["O monks, if a monk] developed the mindfulness (doctrinal
> investigation,

N: Investigation of Dhamma.

N: sammaasa`nkappa.m: instead of right intention: right thinking.

> 46-53. Ajjhatta.m ruupasa~n~nii bahiddhaa ruupaani passati
> parittaani suva.n.nadubba.n.naani. 'Taani abhibhuyya jaanaami
> passaamii'ti -- eva.msa~n~nii hoti...
> ["O monks, if a monk, even for the duration of a finger-snap,]
> conscious of material forms arising from within,

N: ajjhatta: I would eliminate arising, thus: within himself. I
think materiality of his own body. He can develop kasinas taking as
subject parts of his own body or external objects and then attain
ruupa-jhaana.

N: here is allusion to the immaterial jhaanas, and here is the
connection with the term aruupasa~n~nin.
I consulted Dhammasangani Pali, 225: this has aruupasa~n~na. This is
translated by PTS as: unconscious of any part of his corporeal self..

The *a* is a negation of ruupasa~n~nin, not of ruupa, thus, not
perceiving ruupa, materiality, of his own body. (See below the
Atthasaalinii). The word unconscious seems misleading.

N: immaterial forms: this is a contradiction.
It could be: not conscious of material forms of his own body...