Hi,

Isn't the academic consensus also that Buddhas words were never really "translated" into Pali, because the language in which the Buddha spoke and the dialect which we call "Pali" now (and might have been Arahant Mahindas mother tongue) are so close (being not different languages but rather dialects?). If I remember Oskar von Hinübers explanation correctly then "Pali" might just have been Arahant Mahindas mother tongue or the dialect of the monasteries (region of Ujjeni) where he put the Pali canon to heart before he set out to Sri Lanka. If you think of it that way, the Sri Lankans were not really wrong, calling Pali Buddhas own language. It also explains the Magadhism very well. So Pali's relation to Buddhas Language might be like modern German to Goethes/Schillers German or modern English to Lord Byrons/Wordsworth English - another register perhaps, some "unfamiliar" old words and another dialect but more or less the same "language"

mettâya,

Lennart

----- Original Message -----
From: hjor9
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Saturday, March 25, 2006 10:41 AM
Subject: [Pali] Re: regarding pali.


Howdy all,

I believe the consensus in the academic world is that Pali and Maghadi
are not the same.

After converting to Buddhism, King Asoka (ca. 250 BCE) erected edicts
all over his empire, which consisted of most of the Indian
subcontinent. These edicts were written in local dialects. They tell
of Asoka's deeds and expound Buddhist doctrine. Linguists and
philologists have studied the languages of these edicts and compared
them to Pali. Interestingly, Pali does not most resemble the
languages of the many edicts in Magadha (north-eastern India near the
Himalayas). Rather, it is closest linguistically to the language of
the Girnar edict, in the Gujarat region (western India). For this
reason, scholars believe that Pali is actually a western Indian
dialect, not an eastern one.

Since the Buddha himself didn't stray far from the Magadha region
during his lifetime, scholars have concluded that Pali was not the
language actually used by the Buddha.

The Pali Canon *is* however the oldest extant written source of the
Buddha's teachings. But we should remember that Buddhism was
transmitted orally for centuries before it was committed to writing.

In conclusion - yes, the Buddha himself likely spoke a Magadhi
language, but Pali is not that language.
-----

Some sources:

Oberlies, Thomas. 2001. "Pali: A Grammar of the Language of the
Theravada Tipitika." Berlin: Walter de Gruyter. (pages 1-2 talk about
the Girnar edict and Pali).

Benerji, S.C. 1964. "An Introduction to Pali Literature." Calcutta:
Punthi Pustak. (p. 23 for some general discussion on Asokan edicts)

Malalasekera, G.P. 1958. "The Pali Literature of Ceylon." 2nd
edition, Colombo: M.D. Gunesana & Co. (pp. 21-22 has a little
discussion on the Asokan edicts as well).

Also, the introduction in Nanamoli's translation of the Visuddhimagga
is good for a traditional account of how Buddhism reached Ceylon.
According to his timeline, the Pali Canon isn't committed to writing
until the 1st century BCE.

Adios,
Thomas



--- In Pali@yahoogroups.com, "Dmytro O. Ivakhnenko" <aavuso@...> wrote:
>
> Hi Desmond,
>
> > I a bit curious abt Pali canon.In
> > which langauge did the Buddha exound the Dhamma in?
>
> In Ardha-Magadhi, which was later standardized as 'Pali'.
>
> See:
> http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21867
> http://www.lioncity.net/buddhism/index.php?showtopic=21924
>
> Best regards,
>
> Dmytro
>










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