Dear Ong Yong Peng,
This is a good question. Strangeliy, the commentator Buddhaghosa apparently
takes the semantics of the expression to be evidentbecause he merely glosses
bhedaa (abl.) by bhedena. Now Dhammapaala is more explicit, he suggests that
it means to give up the khandhas and adds the alternative explanation "by
annihiltion of the jiivitindriya" namely the life principle. This is very
close to what I think it denotes, it denotes a fundamental alteration
(bheda) of the body at the time of death. The idea of decomposition is not
at all in the picture. I think that the common translation, evidently
inspired by the PTS is off the mark.
Happy New Year,
Ole Pind
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Fra:
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Pali@yahoogroups.com] På vegne af Ong Yong
Peng
Sendt: 2. januar 2006 04:30
Til:
Pali@yahoogroups.com
Emne: [Pali] AN1.15.1-28 A.t.thaana (5/5)
Dear Nina, Ole, Chanida and friends,
Happy new year, and thanks again. However, I am still not sure of
bheda. Perhaps I was not clear in my previous question. So, pardon me
to ask again,
PED has "kaayassa bheda" - breaking up of the body.
The phrase "break up" can mean various things in English. For
example, it can mean ending a relationship, as in Susan and her
boyfriend break up.
When using on organisms, "break up" usually means decompose, for
those who think /strictly/ in English. We know that the process of
natural decomposition takes from several months to years.
So, my question is really whether "kaayassa bheda"
means "decomposition of the body" or "failure of the body" or it is a
word used loosely and should not be taken literally. It would be good
to know the commentarial and abhidhammic views. Please advise.
Last but not least, the final instalment of A.t.thaana:
A`nguttara Nikaya: Ekaka Nipaata
A.t.thaana
Tatiya Vagga
24-25. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m
vaciiduccaritasama`ngii ...pe... ya.m manoduccaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa sugati.m
sagga.m loka.m upapajjeyya. Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .Thaana~nca kho
eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m manoduccaritasama`ngii tannidaanaa
tappacaayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m duggati.m
vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya. .Thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.
26. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m
kaayasucaritasama`ngii tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m
mara.naa apaaya.m duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya.
Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati. .Thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati
ya.m kaayasucaritasama`ngii tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa
para.m mara.naa sugati.m sagga.m loka.m upapajjeyya. .Thaanameta.m
vijjatii"ti.
27-28. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m
vaciisucaritasama`ngii ...pe... ya.m manosucaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m
duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya. Neta.m .thaana.m
vijjati. .Thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m
manosucaritasama`ngii tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m
mara.naa sugati.m sagga.m loka.m upapajjeyya. .Thaanameta.m
vijjatii"ti.
Vaggo tatiyo.
------------------------------------------------------------------
5-6. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m
vaciiduccaritasama`ngii ...pe... ya.m manoduccaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa sugati.m
sagga.m loka.m upapajjeyya.
not this position / monks / not a chance / that / one living with
unwholesome acts of speech / ...and so on... / that / one living with
unwholesome acts of thought / because of this reason / because of
this condition / from the breaking of the body and after death /
happy state / heavenly / realm / should be reborn in
This is impossible, monks, there is not a chance that a person living
with unwholesome acts of speech... unwholesome acts of thought...
should be reborn in a happy state, a heavenly realm, after the
breaking of the body and after death, because of this reason and
condition.
vaciiduccaritasama`ngii (adj) one living with unwholesome acts of
speech.
manoduccaritasama`ngii (adj) one living with unwholesome acts of
thought.
Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati.
not this / position / is found
This is not possible.
.Thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m manoduccaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappacaayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m
duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya.
position-and / indeed / this / monks / is found / that / one living
with unwholesome acts of thought / because of this reason / because
of this condition / from the breaking of the body and after death /
state of woe / realm of misery / place of suffering / purgatory /
should be reborn in
But this is indeed possible, monks, that a person living with
unwholesome acts of thought, because of this reason and condition,
would be reborn in a state of woe, a realm of misery, a place of
suffering, a purgatory, after the breaking of the body and after
death.
.Thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.
this position / is found
This is possible."
------------------------------------------------------------------
7. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m
kaayasucaritasama`ngii tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m
mara.naa apaaya.m duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya.
not this position / monks / not a chance / that / one living with
wholesome acts of the body / because of this reason / because of this
condition / from the breaking of the body and after death / state of
woe / realm of misery / place of suffering / purgatory / should be
reborn in
This is impossible, monks, there is not a chance that a person living
with wholesome acts of the body should be reborn in a state of woe, a
realm of misery, a place of suffering, a purgatory, after the
breaking of the body and after death.
kaayasucaritasama`ngii (adj) one living with wholesome acts of the
body.
Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati.
not this / position / is found
This is not possible.
.Thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m kaayasucaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa sugati.m
sagga.m loka.m upapajjeyya.
position-and / indeed / this / monks / is found / that / one living
with wholesome acts of the body / because of this reason / because of
this condition / from the breaking of the body and after death /
happy state / heavenly / realm / should be reborn in
But this is indeed possible, monks, that a person living with
wholesome acts of the body, because of this reason and condition,
would be reborn in a happy state, a heavenly realm, after the
breaking of the body and after death.
.Thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.
this position / is found
This is possible."
------------------------------------------------------------------
8-9. "A.t.thaanameta.m, bhikkhave, anavakaaso ya.m
vaciisucaritasama`ngii ...pe... ya.m manosucaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa apaaya.m
duggati.m vinipaata.m niraya.m upapajjeyya.
not this position / monks / not a chance / that / one living with
wholesome acts of speech / ...and so on... / that / one living with
unwholesome acts of thought / because of this reason / because of
this condition / from the breaking of the body and after death /
state of woe / realm of misery / place of suffering / purgatory /
should be reborn in
This is impossible, monks, there is not a chance that a person living
with wholesome acts of speech... wholesome acts of thought... should
be reborn in a state of woe, a realm of misery, a place of suffering,
a purgatory, after the breaking of the body and after death.
vaciisucaritasama`ngii (adj) one living with wholesome acts of speech.
manosucaritasama`ngii (adj) one living with wholesome acts of thought.
Neta.m .thaana.m vijjati.
not this / position / is found
This is not possible.
.Thaana~nca kho eta.m, bhikkhave, vijjati ya.m manosucaritasama`ngii
tannidaanaa tappaccayaa kaayassa bhedaa para.m mara.naa sugati.m
sagga.m loka.m upapajjeyya.
position-and / indeed / this / monks / is found / that / one living
with wholesome acts of thought / because of this reason / because of
this condition / from the breaking of the body and after death /
happy state / heavenly / realm / should be reborn in
But this is indeed possible, monks, that a person living with
wholesome acts of thought, because of this reason and condition,
would be reborn in a happy state, a heavenly realm, after the
breaking of the body and after death.
.Thaanameta.m vijjatii"ti.
this position / is found
This is possible."
Vaggo tatiyo.
third / part
The Third Part
vagga (m) chapter, part.
tatiya (num ord) third.
A.t.thaanapaa.li pannarasamo.
book on possibility / fifteenth
Book on Possible Outcomes, the Fifteenth
Please correct me if there is any mistake.
metta,
Yong Peng.
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