Dear Alan,

Alan McClure wrote:

> eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa saavatthiya.m viharati jetavane anaathapi.n.dikassa
> aaraame.

eka.m samaya.m = at one time (once)
bhagavaa = the blessed one
saavathiya.m = (in, at, near, etc) Saavatthii
viharati = he stays (dwells)
jetavane = in Jeta's forest
anaathapi.n.dikassa aaraame = in Anaathapi.n.dika's park

The early Indians placed larger locations before smaller ones, I think, for logical
reasons: you head for Saavatthi (or the whole area is connected with it), then you
reach Jeta's forest, and then into Anathapindika's park (then the Blessed One).

However, it keeps to better English idiom if we translate it (idiomatically or by
meaning) the reverse way, which I follow in my translations (although Bhikkhu Bodhi
follows the Indian sequence). After all, when we address a letter we would write
Name, House no & street, town, country.

Either method is acceptable actually, as it does not devalue one's attempt at working
towards awakening here. This is like a door that opens either inwards or outwards.
The important thing is to to actually open the door and enter.

> Is it normal for the city to be first and thus be placed in front of the
> verb "viharati"? or is it simply that the place that includes the other
> places--is more encompassing--comes first in the sentence?
>

Pali has a very flexible syntax: as long as the verb is present, we can somehow finds
its referent/s. So it does not really matter where the verb appears: context will
tell. Always take context above text, the spirit over the letter. After all, we want
to know what the Buddha teaches, not merely master Pali. We are making the spoon to
taste the soup, not simply to see how well made the spoon is, or simply being members
of a Spoon Club.

> One example might be if the sentence were re-written to include
> something like "the north country" or some such place that is larger
> than the city. Would the order then shift with the "north country"
> being positioned in prior to "viharati" and "saavatthiya.m" then being
> placed first after the verb?
>

Generally, I think, it is larger place (country or people) to smaller locations. For
example:

eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa bhaggesu viharati su.msumaaragire bhesaka.laavane
migadaaye...aayasma anuruddha cetiisu viharati paaciinava.msadaaye.

Lit: Once the Blessed One was dwelling (or residing) in Bhagga country (or, amongst
the Bhaggas) near Su.msumara,giri (Crocodile Hill) in Bhesaka.la forest in the deer
park...the venerable Anuruddha was dwelling amongst the Cetis (or Cedis, or in
Ceti/Cedi country), in the Eastern Bamboo Park.

Idiomatic English:
Once the Blessed One was dwelling in the deer park in Bhesaka.la forest near
Su.msumara,giri in Bhagga country...the venerable Anuruddha was dwelling in the
eastern bamboo forest in Ceti country.

> Accordingly, can we tell from the order of the final members, i.e.
> "jetavane" and "aaraame" whether one is in the other simply based on syntax?
>
> In an attempt to guess the answer, I would assume that the more
> encompassing location would precede the verb, with the others following,
> and that they would then continue in order from largest to smallest.
>
> Thus, Saavatthi contains Jetavane which contains the aarame of
> Anaathapi.n.dika.
>
> From the syntactical standpoint is this correct?

There is an interesting and important case here. Not rarely, we have the following
opening:

(1) eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa a.ngesu viharati assapura.m naama a.ngaana.m nigamo.
Once the Blessed One was dwelling amongst the Angas. There was a market town of the
Angas called Assapura.

(2) eka.m samaya.m bhagavaa kuruusu viharati kammassadhamman naama kuruuna.m nigamo.
Once the Blessed One was dwelling amongst the Kurus. There was a market town of the
Kurus called Kammassa,dhamma.

The Comy on (2) (the Satipa.t.thaana Sutta) says that there was no place in town for
the Buddha to stay, so he stayed outside in the forest.

If I read the Buddha's life and personality and the Suttas correctly, I don't think
the Buddha had ever dwelled (taught yes, but not residing) in any city proper (he was
a lover of solitude). Even Migara's mother's mansion was located away from the city.
So we have to take Buddhaghosa here salus granis magnus. I think such a passage
simply means that there was no proper park or residence, and the Buddha and the monks
were camping out, as it were.

What we have here is a sort of the Pali Code, where certain passage signal a certain
situation. Surely others must have already noticed this.

Yes, syntax helps, but one should also be historically aware of these place names. We
can say, for example,:

Once a foolish world ruler was living in the US, in Washington, on Pennsylvania
Avenue, in the White House, or

Once a foolish world ruler was living in the White House, on Pennsylvania Avenue, in
Washington, in the US.

Pali is not English, and English not Pali, and betwixt the twain, there may be many a
slip. Still we can have a good sip of patent Dharma when the drink is lovingly and
properly prepared, and respectfully presented.

Sukhi

Piya