Dear Rett and group,
Rett: The thing is, as I see it, even if the final member were some kind of
adjective (or past participle), it would be an adjective in a very
different way than the way in which the entire bahubbiihi is an
adjective. It's the entire bahubbiihi gets an -a ending and acts as
an adjective modifying some other item. This may seem petty, but I
believe it's actually an important difference.
Rene: The problem with this is that you're attempting to make a fine distinction that even the grammars don't make. They write (Warder 137, Whitney 1247f) that a compound takes its function from the last element. The grammars consider the last element in a Bh 'functioning as an adjective.' You're considering it functioning in some other way. As it stands, your view is different and contrary to the standard treatment. Unless you can find support for this view in the grammars, your very unique way of seeing these final elements should not be adopted. We shoud not lose sight of the wood for the trees. Attempting to split hairs in the way you are doing is contrary to the grammars, unnecessary, and confuses the issue.
Stephen: When I said that the "noun functions as an adjective", I meant that a noun as the final element of the compound takes adjectival inflections -- it is, of course, the whole compound that is adjectival.
Rene: This agrees with how the grammars treat the issue and use the terms.
Rett: Similarly, in the typical case where the final member is a noun, it
is not quite right to say that the final noun is 'functioning as an
adjective'. It is the compound as a whole that is functioning as an
adjective. This distinction is often glossed over when the point is
just to help students learn to read and understand bahubbiihis.
Warder is mainly concerned with helping students learn to read and
understand bahubbiihis. I don't think he intended it as a precise or
exhaustive treatment of the topic.
Rene: I think we need to be wary when a list member begins 'correcting' the grammars. When the argument resorts to that, it is a sign of isolation and perhaps desperation. Instead of pointing out what is "not quite right" in Warder, it's time to consider bahubbiihis the way the grammars present them. It's time to stop obstinately pushing for a different reading. The sky won't fall. The case has been made.
All behavior has an explanation and a motive. Continued resistance on this issue, as with Alan, makes me wonder... The facts have been presented. If we're dealing here only with a point of grammar, what is the explanation and motive for your and Alan's continued resistance is in this case? I'm not sure. Maybe I should ask Hercule Poirot.
Best wishes in the dhamma,
Rene
----- Original Message -----
From: rett
To: Pali@yahoogroups.com
Sent: Monday, October 24, 2005 2:19 AM
Subject: Re: SV: [Pali] Bahubbiihi cpds
Hi Stephen and group,
>3. The last member of the compound that is being used in a Bbh fashion
>may already be an adjective, BUT if it is a noun, then that noun functions
>as an adjective.
The thing is, as I see it, even if the final member were some kind of
adjective (or past participle), it would be an adjective in a very
different way than the way in which the entire bahubbiihi is an
adjective. It's the entire bahubbiihi gets an -a ending and acts as
an adjective modifying some other item. This may seem petty, but I
believe it's actually an important difference.
Similarly, in the typical case where the final member is a noun, it
is not quite right to say that the final noun is 'functioning as an
adjective'. It is the compound as a whole that is functioning as an
adjective. This distinction is often glossed over when the point is
just to help students learn to read and understand bahubbiihis.
Warder is mainly concerned with helping students learn to read and
understand bahubbiihis. I don't think he intended it as a precise or
exhaustive treatment of the topic.
best regards,
/Rett
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